UKARA Rules...

[No1_sonuk]

Re: UKARA Rules...

Wether it has a working gearbox or not, it's a RIF either way.

This is the important point.
Repairing the mechanics of the gun are not changing its status from IF to RIF, and so the VCRA doesn't apply.

[Fil]

Re: UKARA Rules...

just you can't purchase without a valid defence.

You don't need any sort of defence to buy an airsoft gun. As long as you're over 18 it's perfectly legal for you to buy an airsoft gun whether you skirmish or not; the defence applies to the person selling, not the person buying. Admittedly you'd probably find it difficult to purchase a gun without being able to prove a suitable defence but if you did then as the buyer you'd be fine from a legal standpoint, the seller not so much.

[robobo]

Re: UKARA Rules...

You don't need any sort of defence to buy an airsoft gun. As long as you're over 18 it's perfectly legal for you to buy an airsoft gun whether you skirmish or not; the defence applies to the person selling, not the person buying. Admittedly you'd probably find it difficult to purchase a gun without being able to prove a suitable defence but if you did then as the buyer you'd be fine from a legal standpoint, the seller not so much.

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned unless the RIF is coloured more than 50% a bright colour. But then its no longer a RIF, rather an IF and then only is being over 18 is the minimum requirement.

Any person over the age of 18 buying a RIF with no defense to the VCRA (and there are other defences other than airsofting). He/She is breaking the law, End of. So too is the seller.

[jagillham]

Re: UKARA Rules...

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned...

That's great, but as far as the LAW is concerned, for air rifles/ air pistols you only need tp be over 18 and the sale conducted face to face.

It don't make much sense... but that's the way it is!

[andre the giant]

Re: UKARA Rules...

This debate is endless based on people's interpretation of what is written, the main factor is how the Law and it's enforcers see it. Then it's not up for debate. Best thing is stay within the law as you see it, and if you've got it wrong then you pay the consequences, as a seller just be very cautious about who you sell to, ask for proof if you can get it verified, if not remember that you could be selling to a covert or undercover body..

It happens

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA Rules...

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned unless the RIF is coloured more than 50% a bright colour. But then its no longer a RIF, rather an IF and then only is being over 18 is the minimum requirement.

Any person over the age of 18 buying a RIF with no defense to the VCRA (and there are other defences other than airsofting). He/She is breaking the law, End of. So too is the seller.

Get the basics right please.

The offence (if you're 18 and above) is not to buy a RIF, but to be sold a RIF. It is not the buyer who is breaking the law, it is the seller. The only exception to this would be if someone was giving false defence details to the seller. "Defence" seems to be the problem word here. In this context, it's being used as the buyer providing the seller with what the seller will accept as an acceptable form of confirmation that they themselves can use if they need to defend the sale in court.

BTW, importation, manufacture and modification are still illegal at 18 without a "defence".

[robobo]

Re: UKARA Rules...

That's great, but as far as the LAW is concerned, for air rifles/ air pistols you only need tp be over 18 and the sale conducted face to face.

It don't make much sense... but that's the way it is!

True about air pistols/rifles thought we were talking about airsoft though?

Well said Andre. I no longer participate (as of now) in these discussions, always ends up in disagreement.

[jagillham]

Re: UKARA Rules...

My mistake, I read yours as about air rifles, not Airsoft. Will teach me to log on here before AKng up properly!

[Fil]

Re: UKARA Rules...

You're wrong as far as I'm concerned unless the RIF is coloured more than 50% a bright colour. But then its no longer a RIF, rather an IF and then only is being over 18 is the minimum requirement.

Any person over the age of 18 buying a RIF with no defense to the VCRA (and there are other defences other than airsofting). He/She is breaking the law, End of. So too is the seller.

And you're wrong as far as the law is concerned. There is no mention in the VCRA about purchasing. The offence is for selling, importing or manufacturing. You can buy, or attempt to buy, to your heart's content without any legal problems whatsoever (assuming you're over 18 that is). It's not even a matter of interpretation, it's black and white. There's no offence in the VCRA for purchasing a RIF, it's simple as that.

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA Rules...

attempt to buy

That would depend on how you attemp to buy. Walk into a shop and ask for gun would be legal, but providing false details wouldn't be. It's the same as a minor attempting to purchase age restricted items, the attempt itself can be prosecuted.

[Fil]

Re: UKARA Rules...

That would depend on how you attemp to buy. Walk into a shop and ask for gun would be legal, but providing false details wouldn't be. It's the same as a minor attempting to purchase age restricted items, the attempt itself can be prosecuted.

On what basis would the prosecution take place under such a situation? Which law would be applicable?

[snuff]

Re: UKARA Rules...

I've g00gled but I can't find any prosecutions?
Who would do the prosecuting?

[andre the giant]

Re: UKARA Rules...

True about air pistols/rifles thought we were talking about airsoft though?

Well said Andre. I no longer participate (as of now) in these discussions, always ends up in disagreement.

The problem with these discussions, is somebody always wants to be right, therefore proving somebody else wrong, I have had over 100 RIF's go through my hands in the last 12 months, new and old swapped and traded, I've only been asked for My ukara 3 times I do have one, but all three were retailers. The main thing to look at is this. The law asks what is your purpose for buying a RIF ?? I can buy a RIF co2 .177 gun that is a replica of a SIG or 1911 etc and don't need one, I could brandish/show it in public and be arrested for carrying a RIF, I have no defence, if I do the same with a 6mm BB m4 or Glock I suffer the Same punishment, my defence to own one isn't recognised as a defence to be stupid with it, I did a BLACK OPS launch night with my weapons, standing outside the local GAME shop, I didn't get asked by the passing police officers if I had a licence, why because I was in an environment which suggested it was a promotion of a hugely popular game, if I did the same 2 days before I can guarantee I would have got stopped ,questioned and had my guns confiscated, it's about improper use of a RIF that is what will get you into trouble, a trained firearms police officer isn't allowed to walk around the streets armed because he has a firearms licence unless he is on duty and then he has to have authorisation for carrying. So if you are buying these with the intent not to skirmish or re-inactive then good luck to you, because when you do get arrested, clench those cheeks and don't pick up the soap, for the rest of us normal skirmishers, what are you worried about, stop defending our hobby and get out and skirmish..

[Caveira]

Re: UKARA Rules...

On what basis would the prosecution take place under such a situation? Which law would be applicable?

I've g00gled but I can't find any prosecutions?
Who would do the prosecuting?

I'll speak to the copper who told me this and get back on it, but I would assume that the charge would be something along the lines of conspiracy to obtain etc.

I can buy a RIF co2 .177 gun that is a replica of a SIG or 1911 etc and don't need one, I could brandish/show it in public and be arrested for carrying a RIF, I have no defence, if I do the same with a 6mm BB m4 or Glock I suffer the Same punishment

Not exactly.

If the CO2 pistol is classed as an airgun you cannot be prosecuted for having a RIF in public (either under VCRA or the firearms act) as an air pistol is classed in UK law as a firearm. OK, it's a low powered one, but it's still covered under the firearms act. If it's a firearm, it can't also be an imitation firearm at the same time. That's the reason why 100% realistic looking weapons can be sold without a defence if they're airguns.

BUT, you would be prosecuted under the firearms act for having an air weapon in a public place without good reason.

Have an airsoft RIF in public and the CPS have charges under both the firearms act and VCRA that they could use against you.

[robobo]

Re: UKARA Rules...

There is no mention in the VCRA about purchasing.

So what exactly is the point of having a site membership, being on the ukara database as a listed player or 'being vcra compliant' as some like to say?

So for example, my brother who has never played Airsoft (not that its relevant). Has no real use for a RIF. How can he buy one?