potentially pooping myself:

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

This was a daft public-pleasing, media friendly panic measure introduced at about the same time as VCRA in response to a shooting outside of a nightclub in birmingham, which I believe was perpetrated with a sub-machinegun (mac10 maybe?). The media lapped up the the idea that the gun problem in this country was actually almost entirely comprised of people converting blank-firers, airguns and the like into live fire weapons. For a period of about 3-4 weeks we were subjected to all sorts of cutting edge journalism where the talent would go into their local gun shop, buy a bb gun, bring it outside and tell the audience that the £15 plastic HFC spring Glock he just bought could easily be converted into a 9mm spitting death machine in some bloke's shed. It was hard to watch. Brockock got caught in the firing line, as there was a small amount of merit to the conversion argument. I personally would not be brave enough to try a live fire conversion, as I'm pretty certain that they would be more dangerous to the person firing it that anyone else.

Im pretty sure it relates to a shooting during a new years eve party in Birmingham. A girl was shot dead by a converted brockock revolver when someone brought one to the party and the bullet went through a partition wall. He was shooting at someone else in the same room but missed and the girl was hit in the head. I dont think the law to ban this type of gun is a "daft public-pleasing" stunt since the conversion was very easy to accomplish and some died as a result.

[CHIFF_MoA]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

The reason the brocock revolver got banned is you could buy them as a normal every day air pistol and be able to load and fire .22 cal rim fire rounds from them.

My understanding is that they required conversion, else they would have been classified as a firearm to start with.

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Very minor conversion, the caliber didn't quite fit any live-fire rounds so with a pillar drill you just bored it out slightly in the barrel and the chambers then bobs your uncle you have a lethal firearm...should of been banned from the start.

[B.E.N.]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

I bet they fire really well... LOL

[CHIFF_MoA]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Im pretty sure it relates to a shooting during a new years eve party in Birmingham. A girl was shot dead by a converted brockock revolver when someone brought one to the party and the bullet went through a partition wall. He was shooting at someone else in the same room but missed and the girl was hit in the head.

Ah, yeah I remember now. I was conflating two seperate incidents, got the Birmingham bit right though.

I dont think the law to ban this type of gun is a "daft public-pleasing" stunt since the conversion was very easy to accomplish and some died as a result.

Sorry, I shold have been clearer. My issue with the whole thing, and subsequently the replica related sections of the VCRA is that it came at a time when crime with genuine, illegally obtained firearms was becoming more of a problem. Rather than deal with the problem head on the government chose soft, easy and media friendly policies like banning the sale of RIFs. The brockock system should never have been legal in the first place... and certainly not in .22

[FlangTal1ty]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Fair enough CHIFF_MoA.
And Ben I doubt they did fire very well, not exactly a target pistol, but lethal none the less. Probably why the guy missed his target and killed someone in teh next room through a wall.

[bobfish]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

I think it's so stupid that they ban converted guns, rather than try to tackle real guns.
as mentioned it's the government being soft.
While it is tragic that someone died, it could have been caused by any weapon, and is frequently caused by real guns, so when someone is killed by a converted gun they go all call to arms and ban certain types of guns, but when someone is killed by a gun the government don't do anything further. I know some would argue there is nothing more they can do, but still banning airsoft guns is just overkill. Excuse the pun.

Don't get me wrong I am very concerned with gun crime in the UK, and I realise that some IDIOTS will abuse the freedom we have with blank firing guns and RIFS, however clamping down on them won't stop the bigger problem which is real guns.
So it's like they are pleasing the majority by looking like they are doing something when in reality they are doing Jack.


soz to rant guize.

[bobfish]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Fair enough CHIFF_MoA.
And Ben I doubt they did fire very well, not exactly a target pistol, but lethal none the less. Probably why the guy missed his target and killed someone in teh next room through a wall.

he probably missed his target because:

1. he was drunk. (assumption)
2. it would have been drilled out in this back garden, so the bullet wouldn't quite fit and so rattles around in the barrel causing larger and larger imperfections and a gun that can't hit a barn door.
3. the gun isn't made to fire real bullets so after a number of shots from a .22 it would probably have rattled itself to bits, and so any sort of lineup between sights or the barrel and cartige would be slightly off.


which is another point, these blank converted guns can't hit anything and so shouldn't be banned.

[Andy8746]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

My understanding is that they required conversion, else they would have been classified as a firearm to start with.

They had to be converted to fire live rounds . But if my memory serves me well as stated above it was the airpistol cartridge that was modified not the gun .
I'm not sure why they didn't get classed as fire arms .Maybe they didn't think it would be possible to do "brocock" . And convinced the powers that be it couldn't be made in to a live pistol .But they didn't think the rounds could be converted and past them by . This is just me speculating .

[No1_sonuk]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Erm... Doesn't this make MosCart shells/launchers technically illegal, on account of them having the propellant and the projectile contained within the shell, or do they count as RIFs?

I've certainly seen some places sell them as non-RIFs, so which part is illegal? The gun or the shell?

I thought that when I read the wording of the Firearms Act. When I mentioned it here, someone pointed to something which said that as the Moscart has a barrel, it was essentially a gun in its own right, not a cartridge, so the launcher is basically a stock.

Whilst moscarts and the shot gun shells have been a grey area in the law , last year ( they were given the thumbs up )
It all comes down to use , weight of "bullet" and lethality.

No it doesn't. The prohibition on self-contained cartridges is worded in an absolute manner, with no leeway WRT lethality.

[Trigger Last Chancer]

No it doesn't. The prohibition on self-contained cartridges is worded in an absolute manner, with no leeway WRT lethality.

I meant in turms of the moscart.

Besides moscarts are not self contained as standard , you must add stuff to them to make them work.



Lastchancers.co.uk

[No1_sonuk]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

I meant in turms of the moscart.

Like I said, it's irrelevant what form the cartridge takes.

Besides moscarts are not self contained as standard , you must add stuff to them to make them work.

I'm guessing you've not seen how the Brocock BACS cartridges work in relation to a moscart - they are VERY similar. On both you have to put in gas and a projectile (several in the moscart). The main difference is how the gas is put in, and that the moscart has a "barrel" in the front.

[magslap]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

i used to have 2 of theses back in the 90's.i had a hand pump for the bacs (they were air not gas).fantastic little fun guns,the trigger pull was very stiff and they werent very good target guns,and by the time you had pumped up all the carts you were knackered lol.but you could vary the power (within limits) depending on how many times you pumped (ooooeeerr)
however,there was a case (which i beleive was televised) about how some had been found in a raid and converted to fire .22 rimfire carts and so got hit quite hard.

personally,airsoft are better....not as acurate but given the choice of another brocock or an airsoft pistol,id go airsoft all the way.
i remember that wasp brought out an m9 copy with special air cartridges that ,when fired cycled the gun,and another company brought out a side by side shotgun using the air carts but they were never as popular.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

i used to have 2 of theses back in the 90's.i had a hand pump for the bacs (they were air not gas).

Air IS a (mixture of) gas. :p

[magslap]

Re: potentially pooping myself:

Air IS a (mixture of) gas. :p

but we werent damaging the ozone layer