Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

[PB107]

I was just wandering, as I am under 18 and am unable to get a UKARA membership..... would a membership at an airsoft site such as ground zero count as a valid defense? I know i wont be able to buy RIF's, but would it enable me to spray the gun to a colour other than two tone?

Many thanks in advance
PB107

[cjftw]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

If you're under 18 you wouldn't be able to even get a RIF and if you were gifting one it would have to be two-tone.

[PB107]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

If you're under 18 you wouldn't be able to even get a RIF and if you were gifting one it would have to be two-tone.

What if the IF was originally gifted two tone though?

[Christo]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Ignore my post. Read below.

[Caveira]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

The under-18 restriction only relates to purchasing, so as long as you can prove that you're a regular player then you can paint a two tone to a RIF.

You can be gifted (as long as it is a genuine gift and no money changes hand and you don't do any unpaid work etc etc) a RIF or a two tone. Where the person who gifts the gun might get a RIF is a different question though!

[seansamurai1]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

The under-18 restriction only relates to purchasing, so as long as you can prove that you're a regular player then you can paint a two tone to a RIF.

You can be gifted (as long as it is a genuine gift and no money changes hand and you don't do any unpaid work etc etc) a RIF or a two tone. Where the person who gifts the gun might get a RIF is a different question though!

Id check that one, recently after a poor JL got pulled apart unfairly, emails were sent to the relevent authorities on this very same matter, their reply was No under 18 can spray an IF to black, in laymans manufactoring a RIF, no under 18 can do that with membership or not.
Although if a parent/Guardian is a registered skirmisher then a RIF can be gifted. There are no rules about owning the RIF, you just cant manufacture a RIF from an IF.

[Caveira]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

I know from home office meeting minutes that they don't like it as they don't believe that this is within the spirit of the rules, but I'd challenge anyone to find where in any of the legislation (act, notes, additional implementation orders etc) it says anything about age except for relating to purchasing/selling.

emails were sent to the relevent authorities on this very same matter, their reply was No under 18 can spray an IF to black

Any chance of a link or copy of this?

[cjftw]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

If I were you mate I'd asked to be gifted a two-tone and use scrim netting when you skirmish until you're 18 and then when you have UKARA defence get yourself a RIF

[Andrew March]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

The VCRA includes restriction on the manufacture, modification and selling of IF's and RIF's

Copied from the VCRA:

36Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;
(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;
(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or
(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36

Simple answer, NO you cannot spray a 2 tone!

[Caveira]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

The VCRA includes restriction on the manufacture, modification and selling of IF's and RIF's

Copied from the VCRA:

36Manufacture, import and sale of realistic imitation firearms(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—
(a)he manufactures a realistic imitation firearm;
(b)he modifies an imitation firearm so that it becomes a realistic imitation firearm;
(c)he sells a realistic imitation firearm; or
(d)he brings a realistic imitation firearm into Great Britain or causes one to be brought into Great Britain.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/section/36

Simple answer, NO you cannot spray a 2 tone!

Thank you, that's just proved it's illegal for ANY of us to buy/sell/import/manufacture realistic imitation firearms.

Did it not occur to you that we have a specific defence that applies to that section of VCRA? That section does not mention age and neither does our defence:

Paragraph 5 provides various defences to the new offence. It makes it a
defence to show that the manufacture, importation, sale or modification was
only for the purpose of making the realistic imitation firearm available for:

The Regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft
skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the
defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of
the activities.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...iZRQgXOX5F8WWA

[magslap]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

i think he was refering to the same thread that i read,and the emails were sent to ukara.we are still waiting to here what is sent back from the government,as a certain shop was supposed to be contacting them to clear it up.......but now its all gone quiet probably coz of christmas.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Thank you, that's just proved it's illegal for ANY of us to buy/sell/import/manufacture realistic imitation firearms.

Did it not occur to you that we have a specific defence that applies to that section of VCRA? That section does not mention age and neither does our defence:

Paragraph 5 provides various defences to the new offence. It makes it a
defence to show that the manufacture, importation, sale or modification was
only for the purpose of making the realistic imitation firearm available for:

The Regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft
skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the
defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of
the activities.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...iZRQgXOX5F8WWA

I cant find the thread the home offices response was put on, Hunter512 has the emails from them concluding that no under 18s are to manufacture a RIF wether they have a site membership or not.

[PB107]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Ok, it looks as though the idea wouldnt work then and would rather not risk it tbh.... however, judging from what i've read.... is it illegal for someone with a UKARA to spray the gun for you?

[Sam-Beta]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Thank you, that's just proved it's illegal for ANY of us to buy/sell/import/manufacture realistic imitation firearms.

Did it not occur to you that we have a specific defence that applies to that section of VCRA? That section does not mention age and neither does our defence:

Paragraph 5 provides various defences to the new offence. It makes it a
defence to show that the manufacture, importation, sale or modification was
only for the purpose of making the realistic imitation firearm available for:

The Regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft
skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the
defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of
the activities.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...iZRQgXOX5F8WWA

Quoted the wrong post but as requested @ Sean.

http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...836#post915836

[Caveira]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

i think he was refering to the same thread that i read,and the emails were sent to ukara.we are still waiting to here what is sent back from the government,as a certain shop was supposed to be contacting them to clear it up.......but now its all gone quiet probably coz of christmas.

Firstly, UKARA have got 100% f-all to do with this. They are there to protect the interests of the retailers and not that of the players. It is in their members interests to suggest that this is illegal.

Secondly, the home office can say what they want but at the end of the day all they can do is issue guidance on what they believe the law to mean. The courts are the ones who interpret the legislation and unless someone can find a reference to under-18s in relation to anything other than purchasing I'll continue to hold my position until either a) parliament amends the regulations or b) a judge sets precedent saying otherwise.

Finally, I think the thread that you might be refering to was the one about the xsite under-18 sales scheme. That was about adults purchasing on behalf of under-18 players and nothing to do with modification. If that's not the thread the appologies.