Where does the VCRA actually cover?

[Fil]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

I like the part of this thread where people who have very limited knowledge and experience of how the laws of the land (And its courts) actually operate, enter and start spouting the same diatribe they do on exactly every other VCRA discussion thread.

If you aren't qualified in law in any way, shape or form, please stop telling people that what you are saying is fact and is just your opinion of how you interpret the law.

I can tell people (From personal, first hand experience) that you're talking out of your hoops!

So the VCRA only containing an offence for the sale of RIFs and not the purchase of RIFs (for those over 18) isn't a fact and is only an interpretation? How exactly are you figuring that out?

The VCRA would only cover the sale if the buyer is in the UK. As the buyer is outside of the UK they are governed by the laws of the IoM. If the laws of the IoM do not say the buyer cannot buy the RIF then no laws have been broken.

If the VCRA covered the purchase rather than the sale I could see how that would be the case. But the VCRA makes the sale an offence and if the seller is based in the UK (and therefore the sale takes place in the UK) I can't see how the VCRA couldn't or wouldn't apply.

[1st commando]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

It's like competing for gold in the special olympics here . Have fun all and hopefully a problem free transaction when you do rely on your interpretation

[N_Scooby]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

The VCRA makes the sale of RIF's to someone who doesn't have a defence an offence. If the RIF is being exported to somewhere where you do not need a defence - that in itself is a defence against the VCRA!

[Fil]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

The VCRA makes the sale of RIF's to someone who doesn't have a defence an offence. If the RIF is being exported to somewhere where you do not need a defence - that in itself is a defence against the VCRA!

Except that the VCRA doesn't make the sale of RIFs to someone who doesn't have a defence an offence. It makes the sale of RIFs an offence where you're not doing it for one of the reasons set out in the defences. From the guidance note for the the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007:

The Regulations provide for two new defences. The first is for the organisation and holding of airsoft skirmishing. This is defined by reference to “permitted activities” and the defence applies only where third party liability insurance is held in respect of the activities.

and

8. For manufacturers, importers and vendors to claim one of the defences, they must be able to show that their conduct was for purpose of making realistic imitation firearms available for one of the reasons specified in the defences above.

The need for buyers to have UKARA or some other method of showing they're a skirmisher is so a seller can show that their conduct was for the purpose of making realistic imitation firearms available for airsoft skirmishing and therefore be able to claim the defence.

[magslap]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

i love these threads.............................no really..........................i do.



if the said rif is going through any form of customs,then are they HM customs,or does the IOM have its own customs?

[N_Scooby]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

Except that the VCRA doesn't make the sale of RIFs to someone who doesn't have a defence an offence. It makes the sale of RIFs an offence where you're not doing it for one of the reasons set out in the defences. From the guidance note for the the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Realistic Imitation Firearms) Regulations 2007:



and



The need for buyers to have UKARA or some other method of showing they're a skirmisher is so a seller can show that their conduct was for the purpose of making realistic imitation firearms available for airsoft skirmishing and therefore be able to claim the defence.

You are quoting the VCRA which is UK law not IoM. You may as well quote French law as it is equally not relevant to the IoM!

The buyers defence is the simple fact that he does not need a defence as the IoM laws are different to UK laws and they are allowed to own RIF's without the need to be a skirmisher or be a member of a site which holds 3rd insurance.

[Fil]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

You are quoting the VCRA which is UK law not IoM. You may as well quote French law as it is equally not relevant to the IoM!

The buyers defence is the simple fact that he does not need a defence as the IoM laws are different to UK laws and they are allowed to own RIF's without the need to be a skirmisher or be a member of a site which holds 3rd insurance.

I'm not talking about the buyer or any defence they may or may not need. I'm talking about the seller who will need to comply with the provisions of the VCRA if they're based in the UK and therefore are making a sale which originates within the UK. And i'm pretty sure UK law allows people to own a RIF without the need to be a skirmisher or be a member of site which has 3rd party insurance.

[Andrew March]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

UK Law only applies to UK Residents and persons visiting the UK, If I live in France and want to buy a RIF from Zero One I would not have to provide a defence to Zero One and Zero One would not have to satisfy the requirements of the VCRA because the provisions of the VCRA are only applicable to the UK, it's residents and persons visiting the UK. The same applies with the Isle of Man as they write and ratify thier own laws.

Now it really might be best for some people to research who the laws of the UK apply to and in what circumstances before they speak the 'gospel according to' bollox.

[Fil]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

UK Law only applies to UK Residents and persons visiting the UK, If I live in France and want to buy a RIF from Zero One I would not have to provide a defence to Zero One and Zero One would not have to satisfy the requirements of the VCRA because the provisions of the VCRA are only applicable to the UK, it's residents and persons visiting the UK. The same applies with the Isle of Man as they write and ratify thier own laws.

Now it really might be best for some people to research who the laws of the UK apply to and in what circumstances before they speak the 'gospel according to' bollox.

If Zeroone are based in the UK and the sale is being made in the UK, even if the product is getting shipped to another country, how do you figure that the provisions of UK law do not apply to that sale? Are you seriously trying to say that despite the sale originating in the UK and the seller being based in the UK the sale doesn't have to comply with UK law?

[Beef]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

i love these threads.............................no really..........................i do.



,or does the IOM have its own customs?

They have their own customs officers, we met some when they came over here (heathrow) to see how HMRC deals with drug smugglers etc and checked out our facilities, (or were they from the channel islands? whichever is not under UK law, shows how much attention I was paying that day)

[Andrew March]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

The only laws they need comply with are thew laws governing the export of items, as the VCRA covers import, not export it does not apply. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Jean Paul Froggienuts has to have a UKARA number or other defence in order to buy a RIF from a UK retailer.

Like I said before use your head and gain some knowledge before spouting out your blowhole.

If Zeroone are based in the UK and the sale is being made in the UK, even if the product is getting shipped to another country, how do you figure that the provisions of UK law do not apply to that sale? Are you seriously trying to say that despite the sale originating in the UK and the seller being based in the UK the sale doesn't have to comply with UK law?

[Fil]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

The only laws they need comply with are thew laws governing the export of items, as the VCRA covers import, not export it does not apply. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Jean Paul Froggienuts has to have a UKARA number or other defence in order to buy a RIF from a UK retailer.

What does import or export have to do with the actual sale? And no Jean Paul Froggienuts doesn't need anything in order to try and buy a RIF from a UK retailer, why would he when buyers in the UK don't either? The UK retailer does however need to be able to satisfy the requirements of the VCRA in respect of the sale they are making in the UK, which means they need to be able to satisfy one of the defences against the section 36 offence of selling a realistic imitation firearm.

Like I said before use your head and gain some knowledge before spouting out your blowhole.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and actually read about the VCRA and the offences it contains?

[Johnno]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

We send Tyres over to the IOM and they usually go via a freight forwarding company who send them on the Ferry, I might be wrong but I suspect that all non priority Royal Mail Mail/Packages do not go by Air?

[Johnno]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/ma...ds-or-isle-man

"Items with a value of up to £270 must carry customs declaration CN22.
Items with a value over £270 must carry customs declaration CN23 plus adhesive plastic wallet SP 126.
Deliveries to the Channel Islands and Isle of Man may also be subject to delays due to customs checks.
Consequential Loss Cover is not available for items going to the Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
There is no need to affix an Airmail label to mail destined for the Channel Islands or Isle of Man
"

Tricky one...might be easier to break any Guns down in to 2 Packages??

[RedHawk]

Re: Where does the VCRA actually cover?

In my past 12-13 years on the Internet, I've learnt to never listen to any one unless they can provide a reputable source for their claims. It's all well and good saying things like this about the VCRA but until I see some citations then it's all a bunch of crap. I can make stuff up and claim it's official. It will still be a pile of steaming horse sh*t. Simple as.

If you want to see this as a personal attack (which it isn't, it's a general comment) then come at me bro.