VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

[Caveira]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

People are missing one very obvious question:

Do you, at the moment, skirmish on a regular basis?

Yes - You have no problems and equally the retailer hasn't done anything wrong (though more by luck than judgement!).

No - Assuming that you requested a two tone as you say in your first post, you did nothing wrong when buying it. The retailer messed up, but you can't be held responsible for this. Changing parts, though, to make a RIF from a non-realistic is very much on dodgy ground.


@Andrew March - It's getting fu**ing boring. Either sig it and simply post something along the lines of "please read my sig", or STFU and get of your high horse.

We all know that the courts may interpret the act differently, but that can happen to a solicitor as easily as a layman. There are people who answer questions on these sort of threads with experience of the UK legal system. You've criticised people (in the past) who are serving police officers, people who've successfully taken cases through court without the assistance of solicitors and people who've dealt with the police in relation to their guns.

When even some of the local firearms licencing teams don't know about the defences we have, what makes you think Mr Divorces and House Purchse from your local high street will know the answer?

[Andrew March]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

You do not to be a Solicitor to read the VCRA.

No but you do in order to understand it correctly without fear of misrepresentation, you'd feel like a right twat if you followed the advice of some google lawyer only to get arrested and in case you didn't realise 'some bloke on the interweb told me it was okayz' isn't a defence!

So, yeah, carry on listening to the Numpty know it alls or seek qualified advice, I'm just off down the butchers now to get some advice on getting a new car!

[No1_sonuk]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

So have you requested this forum section be closed completely? Your rants would indicate it's pointless to have it at all.

[N_Scooby]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

No but you do in order to understand it correctly without fear of misrepresentation, you'd feel like a right twat if you followed the advice of some google lawyer only to get arrested and in case you didn't realise 'some bloke on the interweb told me it was okayz' isn't a defence!

So, yeah, carry on listening to the Numpty know it alls or seek qualified advice, I'm just off down the butchers now to get some advice on getting a new car!

I have no formal qualifications in knot tying but I can manage to walk down the street without tripping over my shoelaces!

[Caveira]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

No but you do in order to understand it correctly without fear of misrepresentation, you'd feel like a right twat if you followed the advice of some google lawyer only to get arrested and in case you didn't realise 'some bloke on the interweb told me it was okayz' isn't a defence!

So, yeah, carry on listening to the Numpty know it alls or seek qualified advice, I'm just off down the butchers now to get some advice on getting a new car!

Two things:

"Some solicitor told me" isn't a defence either, but I'm sure that people are far more likely to take things said here with a pinch of salt than they would if told something by a solicitor. They get it wrong regularly, if they didn't then nobody could lose a case in court.

This particular "google lawyer" (or "Numpty know it all" as you've now started to call people) has been to crown court on 4 occasions. 3 times as the plaintiff and once as the defendant. I've won each and every case, each time without any solicitors assistance, for a running total of over £20,000!


If you notice, I had the VCRA Advisor title removed from my profile. I asked for that as I believed that people were too likely to take my word for something and not double check information themselves. Equally, I always respond to questions PM'd to me with something along the lines of "I'm not a solicitor but the way I see it is....".

[Andrew March]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

I have no formal qualifications in knot tying but I can manage to walk down the street without tripping over my shoelaces!

You sure about that

[N_Scooby]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

You sure about that

LOL. I will agree that you have a point though, but this is the interweb and like most things on the net the source of the information counts for everything. You cannot protect the stupid from themselves. If they choose to believe everything they are told then they deserve everything they get. How do people fall for these foreign scams? You are white and middle class, yet you really believe you are related to the ex-president of Nigeria? You are old & fat - of course that hot Eastern European blond wants to come and live with you once you have paid her air fare and for her brothers operation that needs doing before she can leave!

I am a 37 year old Managing Director of a company involved in the oil & gas industry. I have to deal with jargon, legal crap (a lot of it Russian!!) and financing large projects. Just this week I have had to secure a guarantee against my house as a 10% 'Performance Bond' backed by my bank.

Airsoft is my way of blowing off steam.

I would like to think with my experience I could advise people pretty accurately whether their plastic toy gun should be snot green or not. Whether they choose to listen to me or would prefer to listen to the spotty 14 year old gun freak then that is entirely up to the OP. You just give your information and let them make their own decisions - it is their responsibility at the end of the day.

[magslap]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

.

Whether they choose to listen to me or would prefer to listen to the spotty 14 year old gun freak then that is entirely up to the OP. You just give your information and let them make their own decisions - it is their responsibility at the end of the day.

thats one of the problems though i suppose....you dont know whos the 14 year old spotty gun freak and who isnt.
the other problem is that some people ask some questions which they KNOW are a grey area,and the answers are more based on each individual posters moral beleifs or throw caution to the wind.

[Andrew March]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

You see the problem isn't the advice given as such, it's the complete contradiction in the advice being given, all we do is give mixed signals to anyone asking for advice, with one guy saying yeah, you can do that and another saying, no you're breaking the law.

Reality I have found is often somewhere inbetween, that is the reason for my saying ask a professional. We simply don't have the qualifications or experience here to be able to give advice on a matter of law that really hasn't been tested much, if there have been any cases relating to abuse of the act by way Airsoft related crime then I haven't heard of them and all we do by giving advice is interpret the law the way we understand it and that is not the way the Police or the Home office may interpret it. It may seem a relatively straight forward law at first glance but laws are meant to be ambiguous and to cover a wide variety of offences.

Unless we refrain from giving advice on points of law we may ourselves be responsible for the demise of our sport because we can be seen as giving advice which may lead to a person commiting an offence and then the Home Office will simply say we gave you the chance to be self regulated and you screwed it up.

So, sure give the advice or simply point someone in the right direction and do what's best to protect our game.

Wouldn't everyone agree that is the sensible approach? I know we all like to appear helpful and we all like to boast our knowledge of matters we think we understand but does it make any sense really, my Dad and Brother have sixty years of plumbing experience between them and I worked with my dad everytime I had no work of my own but I would never presume to give anyone advice on fixing thier plumbing, I would point them in the direction of a qualified professional. That's all I'm asking we do here.

[Caveira]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

You see the problem isn't the advice given as such, it's the complete contradiction in the advice being given, all we do is give mixed signals to anyone asking for advice, with one guy saying yeah, you can do that and another saying, no you're breaking the law.

Reality I have found is often somewhere inbetween, that is the reason for my saying ask a professional. We simply don't have the qualifications or experience here to be able to give advice on a matter of law that really hasn't been tested much, if there have been any cases relating to abuse of the act by way Airsoft related crime then I haven't heard of them and all we do by giving advice is interpret the law the way we understand it and that is not the way the Police or the Home office may interpret it. It may seem a relatively straight forward law at first glance but laws are meant to be ambiguous and to cover a wide variety of offences.

Unless we refrain from giving advice on points of law we may ourselves be responsible for the demise of our sport because we can be seen as giving advice which may lead to a person commiting an offence and then the Home Office will simply say we gave you the chance to be self regulated and you screwed it up.

So, sure give the advice or simply point someone in the right direction and do what's best to protect our game.

Wouldn't everyone agree that is the sensible approach? I know we all like to appear helpful and we all like to boast our knowledge of matters we think we understand but does it make any sense really, my Dad and Brother have sixty years of plumbing experience between them and I worked with my dad everytime I had no work of my own but I would never presume to give anyone advice on fixing thier plumbing, I would point them in the direction of a qualified professional. That's all I'm asking we do here.

I can't say that there's anything (bar one point - see below) in this post that I disagree with. There's a huge difference between this and your usual "google lawyers" answers.

The thing is, though, that the vast majority of people will say "VCRA says xyz" and that is perfectly OK. It's when they say "because VCRA says xyz you can do w" the problems occur. None of the answers in this thread saying the OP has commited no offence are incorrect. None of them saying he's legally allowed to own a RIF are incorrect. The ones where there may be an issue are about changing two tones to RIFs, but as long as they are given on the basis of "I think...." then that is OK.

My one issue about your argument is that you believe a solicitor can give safe advice on something that, as you quite rightly point out, has very little case law behind it. My confidence dealing with the courts comes from working as the designated liason between a major bank and their solicitors, over legal disputes regarding vacant properties and repossessions, for 3 years. I had thousands of phone calls, hundreds of meetings and read countless barrister's opinions. That gave me a very good idea about how the courts tend to interpret case law, but at the same time a very strong belief that no matter how good your case the other guy will have just as strong a case against you. There is no case law for us to rely on, so all a solicitor will be able to do is read the act and say "section a says this, but section b says that....". This is no different to what you are getting here.

[TOBI]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed


couldn't help it :P


http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...539#post946539


A THREAD FOR YOU LOT TO FIGHT OUT YOUR PROBLEMS ABOUT THE INTERPRETATION OF THE VCRA!

[bravotwozero]

Re: VCR Bill And The Responsibilities Of Retailers - Advice Needed

i'm hoping one of you wise forum members out there might be able to offer some advice about the vcr bill following a purchase i recently made.

Firstly, i am not registered as a skirmished. Therefore, the weapons i buy must be painted before they can be legally sold to me. This is clear enough, but having purchased a weapon recently and paid for the item to be painted, it was shipped to me without any painting taking place. Now as i understand it, the vcr act does not affect weapons i currently own and as such, my older guns do not have to be painted.

My question to you all therefore is this:

As i attempted to purchase a weapon legally and received the item without paint applied, is it my responsibility to ensure 50% of this weapon is painted? I assume that it is the responsibility of the retailer to ensure i'm a registered player before sending me an unpainted gun. Is this retailer therefore guilty of negligence?

The reason i ask this is twofold.

1. I don't want to be prosecuted
2. I paid for a service i didn't receive and whereas i don't want the paint applied (as i have now changed slide and frame) i do either want my money back or an item to the equivalent value.

Any advice any could offer with regards to this scenario would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

nick

You did nothing wrong - it's allllll goooooooooood