Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

[TwinTurboCH]

Hi guys,

I'm interested in asking for some opinions. Is it common for people to sell clones as 'TM' or KSC' etc? And what is the usual way of dealing with such a problem?

I bought a 'TM Desert Warrior' from someone on here and dutifully paid, provided UKARA etc I have had clones in the past and now hate them because of performance issues etc, (especially with full metal gas blowback clones), so I only buy things like TM, KSC etc.

Parcel arrived this morning with a full metal and completely stock WE Desert Warrior minus it's front rail (which was shown as attached in the blurry for sale pics).
It has not trades
It has no manufacturer marks
It is full metal (but with silver trigger etc as per the WE)
The mags are not even close to TM compatible.

Compared to the ACTUAL TM Desert Warrior I already own, there is not even a slight similarity.

Upon contacting the member in question in an incredibly polite and friendly manner, informing them of their mistake, they almost immediately replied, in a somewhat surly tone, stating that it was a custom pistol and that I should return the pistol and accessories for a refund MINUS the cost of postage to me and refusing outright to cover my costs in returning the pistol to them.

I replied saying I thought this was unfair as it was their mistake in identifying the pistol they were selling, and I am awaiting a response, but in the meantime, I'd like people opinions on the matter....

In my mind, they should be refunding me in full and paying for the cost of me shipping the pistol back to them.

Many thanks in advance

[bob86]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

well i turned up to look at a 249 that was advertised first as g&g then as g&p. when i got hands on, it was apparant it wwas either a a&k or a ca as the g&p has a totally different gearbox

[Lt3033]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

I think that the seller should give you a FULL refund and cover postage as its 100% their fault and they are lying about what they are selling!

I can't say for sure but I suspect it was done intentionally in the gain of more money and a faster sale.

[psirus101]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

This should be of some interest to you.

under the distance sellers regulations *anything* sold online can be returned within seven days of receipt by the buyer for *any* reason. You can of course ask him to pay the postage back to you in that case (and at £15 he'd probably not bother) but technically unless you agreed pre-sale that it would be his respinsibility, he can in fact request that you pay the postage for returns also.

The following explains DSR fairly fully.
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft913.pdf

Even though this seems rather unfair on the seller (or not in this case. p101), this is the relevant contract law on the subject and intends to protect the buyer when they have not been able to inspect goods before purchase.

[Coski]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

well i turned up to look at a 249 that was advertised first as g&g then as g&p. when i got hands on, it was apparant it wwas either a a&k or a ca as the g&p has a totally different gearbox

Funny you should say this....was it sold by someone on here? I drove almost 2 hours to meet somebody about a G&P M249 to find it was obviously an A&K(you could see from the external quality, and by the fact it took M4 mags and loaded into the side, unlike a G&P). He insisted it was just an older model G&P, but it obviously wasn't!

[TwinTurboCH]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

Reply 1 from the seller -

Sorry to hear that.
It is actually a custom pistol.
Upon receipt of the items I shall refund you the full amount for the items excluding postage.
However I shall not be including postage for the return .

I am currently in the USA with the army for 2 months but this situation will be dealt with by my other half.

Sorry

****

Reply 2 from the seller -

Regarding returns postage, fairness is regardless of the sale performed between you and ****. Especially since there were photographs displaying the etent of the item you purchased and thus you were not blindly puchasing the item under false advertisment given that your extensive knowledge would therefore outline a possible miss-expression of the item regardless of whether the item was customised or not.
**** is fully willing to accept a return for a full refund of the price of the items upon receipt, this is more than acceptable if not fair.

Regards
****

I told them I could prove it was WE and not TM as it had been field stripped to take side-by-side photos of an ACTUAL TM Desert Warrior and what they sent me.

Reply 3 from the seller -

J****,
The item was not miss-sold since the item was sold in the knowledge of it being the item as described exclusiveky with photographs, the fact that you chose not to properly view the photographs is a mistake on your part as the photographs showed the weapon is high quality, **** admits that she did forget to inckude the under rail and apologies for this.
However given that you have disassembled/stripped the item it is very generous that **** is offering a return at all let alone for a full refund. If you wish to open a dispute via PayPal then that is down to you however I have been and will continue to be fully cooperative with the situation, and if you do wish to escalate the situation I would suggest you refer to the Distance Selling Regulations under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 as well as PayPal Policy.
Regards, *****

Thoughts please people.....

[HuntR]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

Wow, that seller is totally sketchy and tried to scam you.

[captain dog]

Since you pulled it apart id say you lost the right to refund. Paypal could see it that way. Paypal will also not make the seller refund postage. Looks like you might be joining my face to face deals only club. Ill send you a form.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

[HuntR]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

I'm guessing it's this you've bought http://forums.zeroin.co.uk/showthrea...rt-Warrior-4-3

To me it's clearly not a TM. The TM uses allen screws for the grips. Same with the rail attatchment. Then we move onto the different safety. And the front sight. You've been conned mate.

[Gaffa]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

Well under the "Trade Descriptions Act 1968" you'd have a case against the seller. Perhaps you should tell him that (rather than threaten it).

psirus - I was under the impression Distance Selling Regulations don't apply to third party sales? Blow my horn if I'm wrong, but even having quoted from MajorLandmark, no seller is bound by law to do anything - once a sale is agreed a contract is formulated. It's why I used to state "no refunds" and "no returns" on most of my sales listings. Difference is, I put a lot of effort into listing any of my items and a single sale thread often took me well over an hour to list.

[Coski]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

Don't take it to Paypal. You'll lose the case outright. I'd say, even though he's in the wrong, to accept your losses and just take the refund. At the end of the day, is £15 worth the grief?

[Caldymoose]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

You should get a full refund off him, hes blatantly lied about what he is selling, and even provided pictures. If the images that he has provided are of the pistol he sold you, then he knew what it was he was selling to you. A Desert Warrior is hardly a 'custom' pistol at all, there is nothing unique about it, and at least 2 manufacturers make the shorter 4.3" version.

I do commend you for being civil in your responses to begin with though. I think you have done nothing wrong, and what you are asking for is not an unreasonable request given the circumstances. If nothing materialises, then negative feedback is a certainty. Hes lied to you, and is refusing to take responsibility for it. Hes tried to scam you there, no two ways about it. I would be interested to see if the seller responds to this thread...

[pacey]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

If the sale is the on on the linked thread and you've proven the wrong pistol has been sent then I think its fair to ask for a full refund. The problem you face, whilst having a case against him Paypal will immediately cancel the dispute as its over a replica firearm. The next option is petite debts, which for the sake of £15 is really not worth it. I'd take the hit and recover the bulk of your cash if your not happy with the WE. Leave appropriate feedback to explain what happened (after the refund) and move on. It sucks but its the only way by the sound of it.

[psirus101]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

psirus - I was under the impression Distance Selling Regulations don't apply to third party sales?

I'm no expert either...... Hence why I just added the quote (with the url :p) as I remembered it from the other thread.

[Darkmikey22]

Re: Is it a common problem for people to mis-identify guns when selling?

plus what worries me is that they are using someone else's account to rip people off, regardless of whether they've had permission to use or not.