ghk or we gbbr ?

[Proffrink]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

If RAT is the only stuff you've used them you haven't got much to compare against 'cept the stock stuff. As an example, I recently tested the following FCG's for the WE M4 - stock, CWI, RA Tech, TSC, Hephaestus. The standout FCG was from CWI; it was superb in all aspects of it's design, materials and manufacturing. The RAT, Hephaestus, and TSC fire control groups all had problems of one type or another - from bad design, to rubbish materials to piss poor manufacturing.

Where on earth did I say it was the only stuff I've used?

I dunno man. This seems like the classic ZeroIn hive-mindy 'last guy told me it was sh*t' stuff. I know a lot of the RA-Tech stuff easily loses out on the WA platform to designs like Prime, but I've never heard of them being completely awful and nor have I experienced it. Are there any threads about where I can read up on this? A quick Google hasn't revealed too much and I'm genuinely curious now.

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

The Ratech trigger group I recently fitted into my ak74un fitted like a glove with no issues whatsoever. Why oh why though a full 'drop in' box isn't available is beyond me - it is for the M4 I note, though I'm keeping that stock.

Also, what's this I hear on the grapevine that WE are soon to fit steel internals as standard?? Truth or kak!???

WE aren't fitting steel as standard, its 'aftermarket' upgrades you buy.

Ratech BCG in the m4 doesn't run with the WE standard trigger box, not unless you want to replace the trigger every 4 weeks.
The ratech trigger also ruins WE BCGs.

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Where on earth did I say it was the only stuff I've used?

I dunno man. This seems like the classic ZeroIn hive-mindy 'last guy told me it was sh*t' stuff. I know a lot of the RA-Tech stuff easily loses out on the WA platform to designs like Prime, but I've never heard of them being completely awful and nor have I experienced it. Are there any threads about where I can read up on this? A quick Google hasn't revealed too much and I'm genuinely curious now.

It's not 'zero in hive mind' at all.

I've used ratech, I know many have, it's always been toss.
A full build gun is okay if inefficient, the parts are off spec.
Even the vast majority of users on WE tech groups (one in particular with 3k+ members) have said the same or agree when you say no to ratech.
For something that's apparently a drop in part, it normally needs a huge amount of effort to get it working.

But I suppose my experience and the 40-50 people I know first hand who have had issue with ratech (that's just people I actually know first hand who've had issue, not online) must be wrong.

[muzzleflash]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Mr. Samurai - I'm not too sure how you got to that reply, when I clearly stated about the AK's lack of a Rat trigger box and that I was keeping my M4 totally stock (though yes, mainly because of the reasons you state), but thank you anyway.

The AK on the other hand, doesn't have the actual 'box' in steel, because Ratech for some reason don't make them, unlike in the M4 platform. Consequently, a few (the unlucky few as always) have suffered box failures when Rat steel internals are fitted. I noted that, that was probably due to the grease/lubrication turning into grinding paste, through simple steel on pot metal abrasion. Cleaning the weak point very regularly and using a synthetic motor oil appears to alleviate this. That's just my findings though..


I had heard WE are fitting steel bits in some of their products now, though I guess that's largely bunkum by the looks of things. If that were the case, Ratech et Al would be somewhat redundant...

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

I answered your query about WE steel parts, then went on to say something else so keep your pants on.

[muzzleflash]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Pants?? I wear shorts all year round, totally Commando ;-)

[Proffrink]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

It's not 'zero in hive mind' at all.

I've used ratech, I know many have, it's always been toss.
A full build gun is okay if inefficient, the parts are off spec.
Even the vast majority of users on WE tech groups (one in particular with 3k+ members) have said the same or agree when you say no to ratech.
For something that's apparently a drop in part, it normally needs a huge amount of effort to get it working.

But I suppose my experience and the 40-50 people I know first hand who have had issue with ratech (that's just people I actually know first hand who've had issue, not online) must be wrong.

Sorry, was a slight at the frankly slightly aggressive tone you're both taking over what is a toy gun parts manufacturer. I think if anyone needs to keep their pants on it's you.

You still make a valid point; It's just I've not seen huge numbers of people complaining about RAT outside of some WE parts. I'll try and look into them more.

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

If you read aggression in my earlier post mentioning WE making steel parts, I think you need an eye test or a boost of man up.
There was no aggression there, nor was any intended.
By the sounds of it, you're new to ratech.
It's pretty common knowledge that it's shite.

[Proffrink]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Again though, you make a fair point on the WE stuff, but it seems like the whole brand is being written off because of this, and that's just seems less than ideal. It is key to remember that RA-Tech do but a lot of money into their R&D and are - by and large - one of the first manufacturers to come out with upgrades for something new. Maybe this is the problem, but my feeling is they don't always get enough credit. Tolerances are always crap in airsoft and rarely do I buy something without the expectation of having to use some fine grit on it to get it working perfectly anyway.

Hell, you've only got to look at something like Daytona Gun that takes 10,000 rounds to break in because the parts need fitting together (despite the fact that they're incredibly well machined) to realise our expectation of a 'drop in' part or kit is really quite unrealistic when it comes to machining at this scale and on such a tighter budget than real-steal stuff.

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

It seems outside of the WE world, ratech is ok.
I wonder if that's why everything they do WE wise is offspec? Hmmm.

[Heinz]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

RAT's WA stuff isn't much cop either. I've got no axe to grind - but I won't fit crap to a customers gun. I've turned down work because the customer wanted RAT kit fitted when it was demonstrably sub-standard compared to other manufacturers.

[Ragemelon]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

It might be possible that WE at fault, instead of RA tech

[seansamurai1]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

How does that work? How can WE be at fault if aftermarket parts dont fit? Surely common sense says that the 'aftermarket' bit is at fault?

[Ragemelon]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Because WE's are built to tolerances as well, and if their tolerances are sloppy then it doesn't matter how tight tolerances any aftermarket company build to, it's going to have play on the majority of rifles. It happens with real steel guns too, but generally aftermarket parts are made to be oversized which is why gunsmiths are in business.

Pretty basic stuff

[muzzleflash]

Re: ghk or we gbbr ?

Indeed so - and a comparison with the automotive industry is a valid one here too, where aftermarket body panels, usually (or did) have to be chopped and shaped to death to get them to fit. That of course is down to licencing, whether or not that applies to Firearms I know not as my FAC days ended with Dunblane. As for Airsoft, it wouldn't surprise me..