Worrying trend

[hilander]

Hi,

Realised there,s a worrying trend going on , I just about every forum i,ve been in people are arguing about buying airsoft rifles, pistols. trying to buy without getting a ukara. then posting if they can. i,ve been told its safer if you get a ukara and easier to get guns with one. Are these people not putting the hobby at risk doin this ? Why dont they just do it the safe and easiest way that way everyone,s happy .Then again the law should be clear that no one under 18 should have any type of gun, RIF or air rifle gifted or not. I just think theres to many folks trying to purchase before there time.
it,s only 2 months for god sake. Wait that way we can enjoy the hobby for a longer time.

[bravotwozero]

Re: Worrying trend

Arrrgghh

STOP WINING.

The sport is safe!! It's not at risk!


People forget that RIFS are Illegal to buy, sell and import.

Too many people who simply don't know the law are writing a load of rubbish about UKARA licenses and such.

RIFS are illegal. Defences are available. Sell to over 18's who go airsofting. Happy days.


Those who don't qualify for a defence, well it's the sellers look out isn't it? If the seller gets caught, then he's going to get into trouble and that'll be that.



Airsofting won't become illegal - infact Police are trying to regulate it more, which is a good thing as it will become a much more established sport.












To all those worried - your 4 years late. The sport WAS in danger in 2007. Not anymore.






.

[Beef]

Re: Worrying trend

It happen all the time. There is always some guy wanting to buy RIFs without Ukara and plenty of people selling on this forum who sell without checking if the person has ukara or not. its a fact of life,

[yosser]

Re: Worrying trend

i think your mis-reading the current trend and general feeling - in this forum and MANY others people are questioning ukara - and thats a good thing on the whole. Ukara would LIKE you to think they are saviours and use their system etc etc and spread scare stories about how they saved the sport and to not endanger it use the system etc etc...but basically in a nut shell - its not true.

You have access to the 'defence' in law if you are a valid skirmisher i.e. a member of a site with 3rd part liability insurance blah blah blah and thats all a seller needs to check upon - i.e. phone your site 'is Mr Smith' a member and play regualrly 'Yes' you get your rif or 'No' bugger off type thing. Its really that simple - of course the retailers once confirming that and/or getting your ukara application form completed can put you on their Database for a year (when they can be bothered updating it) - or some update for a FEE! - hey it goes on!

But its RIGHT to question and not follow blindly - that way ruin happens.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Worrying trend

People forget that RIFS are Illegal to buy, sell and import.

Too many people who simply don't know the law are writing a load of rubbish about UKARA licenses and such.

Apparently you are one of them - Buying isn't illegal if you're over 18.

RIFS are illegal.

Again, not so. Sale, manufacture and import are illegal, not the RIFs themselves.

[bravotwozero]

Re: Worrying trend

It happen all the time. There is always some guy wanting to buy RIFs without Ukara and plenty of people selling on this forum who sell without checking if the person has ukara or not. its a fact of life,

UKARA is a load of bull though - it's simply a retailers tool.

It's not needed.

[Error 404]

Re: Worrying trend

One of the problems is "valid defence". What does that mean exactly? My friend struggles to buy RIFs because he feels that UKARA isn't a good idea however he has pictures of him in his gear and holding his rifles. Some of them are even on a sites webpage. Is that valid defence? I'd say yes but some people refuse to sell him anything because of his lack of UKARA membership.

I also feel that if someone wants to buy something of quality they don't plan on being stupid and robbing a bank with it. Plus it doesn't take much to buy a can of black spray paint and change a two-tone. If there is someone that wants to use an airsoft weapon to do something illegal then they will find a way. Hell at the prices some AEGs and GBBs go for it would probably be cheaper to buy a real firearm from some dodgy guy down a back ally!

I understand that the VCRA is here to protect us but I feel that it's causing for more problems than it's solving for innocent people that just want to enjoy their hobby. Do chefs have to get valid defence to buy a knife or a builder to use a saw or drill? Another problem is a lack of understanding and common sense from the people making these laws that restrict an item that has caused (as far as I know) no problems for the general public not the RIF's themselves.

I would go on and talk about how someone can be just as scary and intimidating with a baseball bat and how that can and has caused more deaths and injuries than RIFs but I don't feel I need to as everyone knows there are worse things out there than what in essence are toy guns or at most sports equipment

[Sam-Beta]

Re: Worrying trend

A friend of mine managed to get a valid defense for the purchase of RIFS just because he was shooting a student movie and managed to prove they were for the intention of filming. God knows how he did it as it was only a student project. Oh and the reason these laws came into fruition was because back in 2005/6 there were people running around with airsoft weapons (cheap springers etc) using them illegally in public. I also remember reading not too long ago a 17 year old in possession of a RIF aimed it at a police officer while running away from the police. It's these people who put the sport at risk.

The firearms law in general in this country is completely backward. In my local area a lady was being harassed by kids and she decided to purchase an air pistol (so there's no confusion a pistol that is classed as a low velocity firearm shooting well over standard airsoft weapons) and shoot at these children causing injury. These weapons are still very easy to purchase over the counter provided you have a bank statement or something with your address on it and photo ID. Also those in possession of firearms certificates should really be aloud the purchase RIFS surely? If they've proved that they can safely use a real firearm surely this certificate should cover such items as airsoft weaponry?

[Edrof]

Re: Worrying trend

I have a 'valid defence' in that I am part of a bona fide, well-established video production company. Still some retailers wouldn't sell me anything due to not having a UKARA membership number. Even when I patiently referenced the 'theatrical' defence to them, they still refused. Others were happy to help out and I got a shell-ejecting CZ75 which ended up looking fantastic on camera.

For non-skirmishers, confusion is very easy to fall into with airsoft!

[S3V3R]

Re: Worrying trend

People forget that RIFS are Illegal to buy, sell and import.

Erm, Are they?

As far as I was aware, RIFS were not illegal. Thats kind of like saying shotguns are "illegal" because you require a license. Retailers need a defense when selling so they dont sell to someone irresponsible. Yes its illegal if you're under 18 and if you could find a retailer who sells RIFS without UKARA you could buy it. HOWEVER, the retailer would have no protection and the sport would suffer if the buyer was found to be using them irresponsible.

I would also argue contrary to "its illegal to import" as I have had delivered (imported) a handful of RIFS which have passed customs with proof of identity and a copy of my site membership card (i.e. UKARA). I am sure if it was illegal they would have used my details to arrest me? If imports were also illegal then how to you propose retailers get them into the country for retail?

I cant personally say anything about the manufactuer of RIFS as i dont know of any UK bsed ones. TBH even if there were, they couldnt compete with the prices that the taiwanese and chinese put out.

If people use the name "UKARA" think what is means - united kingdom airsoft retailers association.
If you're not a retailer than the defense isnt needed when selling. However on the flip side. If you sold the RIF to some bank robber and it was traced back to you... without UKARA as a defense... you would be boned.

[S3V3R]

Re: Worrying trend

. These weapons are still very easy to purchase over the counter provided you have a bank statement or something with your address on it and photo ID.

Exactly... A well placed or point blank airpistol round can do some serious damage. Know you anatomy right and you can kill someone with a .22 lead pellet from a standard CO2 airpistol/rifle.

despite this... you dont need any proof of intention for it. Every person I know who owns an air rifle, uses it for shooting rats ect. However, whats stopping them from shooing people? There is no defense against that in this country. Instead we have to fart-arse about with UKARA to be able to buy what is essentially a toy.

[Sam-Beta]

Re: Worrying trend

Exactly... A well placed or point blank airpistol round can do some serious damage. Know you anatomy right and you can kill someone with a .22 lead pellet from a standard CO2 airpistol/rifle.

despite this... you dont need any proof of intention for it. Every person I know who owns an air rifle, uses it for shooting rats ect. However, whats stopping them from shooing people? There is no defense against that in this country. Instead we have to fart-arse about with UKARA to be able to buy what is essentially a toy.

Exactly. Anyone over 18 can purchase these weapons that are far more dangerous. There is a MP5K air pistol variety as well that I would class as a RIF, and while only being able to provide single shot function it still would be considered a threat.
There should be a need for a valid defense for these weapons. People in the pest extermination trade would have a valid defense obviously, but I honestly can't see why air pistols and rifles should be sold to anyone other than those who have a valid reason to use them.

[yosser]

Re: Worrying trend

i think some peeps need to read through the actual act! google vcra act 2006 for those not able to google for themselves and require spoon feeding its here:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/38/contents expand section 36/37 to read more - notice anything 'missing' - says nothing specifically about Airsoft - its an 'implied' from SS valid uses part. As I've said elsewhere there are Judges notes, CPS notes and magaistrates notes all referring to it as well but couldnt find these straight to hand.

[Aitch]

Re: Worrying trend

Once again the topic moves from airsoft to 'oh noes air rifles' they have absoluteyl f*** all to do with airsoft, keep your focus purely on airsoft, put your blinkers on and ignore other shooting hobbies,

Could everyone in the thread who were not buying/playing airsoft pre 2007 stop moaning, you chose to play knowing that you'll need a two tone or a defence, suck it up, it's sucks but it works.

[Caveira]

Re: Worrying trend

S3V3R, just a quick point.

VCRA makes it specifically illegal to sell a realistic imitation firearm (regardless of the age of the buyer), to import one, to manufacture one or to convert a non-realistic imitation into an imitation one.

It also makes it specifically illegal to sell an imitation firearm (realistic or not) to anyone under 18 and also for that person to purchase.

This things are illegal. Full stop. End of discussion.

On the other hand, we are able to access one of the standing defences granted by the home secretary which means that while it is still illegal for us to sell, import (etc) we can claim that the law allows us to act illegally under these very restricted circumstances. The difference is minor on the face of it, but very significant in law.