TM in the UK

[B.E.N.]

Re: TM in the UK

Nah, let's keep doing it! :D

[Black Templar]

Re: TM in the UK

At the moment gas & springers are ok.
TM have no interest in RoSh, neither do Real Sword, Systema, Celcius and a few others. Closest to compliance are G&G at the moment with ICS showing a vague interest perhaps.
Young Loki is on the money with the 5k fine for each AEG sold without both CE & Certification. CE has to be etched onto the AEG like the CE mark on electrical items.
At the moment I think its fair to say no AEG's comply with the law, UK deciding to be the most stringent in the guidelines.
Importing for personal use is fine in low numbers, might start to draw attention with people suddenly importing say 5 AEG's for their own use.
Until the manufacturers get on board it's Russian Roulette for stores, some might blag it, others will get stung for massive amounts as well as loose all their AEG stock.

[Esoterick]

Re: TM in the UK

What guns DO they stock?

G&G, ICS, King Arms and G&P off the top of my head. I'm just going off what they said at the end of the day. It seems interesting how some retailers, especially larger ones in the UK sell TM AEGs, whilst others do not. I've heard some right nonsense from retailers, not just in airsoft which coincidentally paints stuff they either do not stock or have run out of in a bad light. Could be that, I have no idea.

I guess I have replied to you as well silver

[Stealthkiller]

Re: TM in the UK

So does this mean a tm buying frenzy will start as less and less retailers stock them .
G&g. Have already stated they will comply to it . And ics are following maybe .. From what I have heard tm have no plans to comply .
Personal imports are going to increase for tm guns. 5 is the limit if my assessment is correct

[PureSilver]

Re: TM in the UK

G&G, ICS, King Arms and G&P off the top of my head.

Like I said, there is approximately no chance whatsoever of TM certifying their own guns; it runs counter to a number of important corporate policies for them. However, that doesn't change the fact that at present literally no-one self-certifies their weapons so as a reason for not stocking TM's stuff up until very recently, the Rohs excuse is just that - an excuse. That said, as a forward-looking thing, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a period when UK retailers don't stock TM's weapons as a result of this problem - but equally I would be very surprised if someone else in the supply chain (the distributor or bulk importer, probably) doesn't take up the slack and certify them so they can continue to import them to the UK.

Like Stealthkiller says, G&G are the only brand I've heard of actively planning to start certifying their own guns; they seem to take the UK market very seriously (and they do seem to sell quite a lot of guns here). The companies you'll see stepping up to Rohs self-certification will be those that sell a lot of electric guns here - G&G and G&P spring (mind the pun) immediately to mind, but I'm not sure who else will. Again, though, I'm sure importers will eventually step up to the plate to post-factory certify others brands' weapons.

[loki7491]

Re: TM in the UK

Puresilver.

Legally, the retailer is considered manufacturer, importer, distributor and retailer.... From the mouth of the ROHS officer whose job it is to check this stuff.... Nice chap by the way.

It is not an excuse. If a small shop buys 4 TM guns and they do a test purchase on one, if the results are a fail they can seize the rest of the batch.

Small shop now out of pocket for 4 guns.
Guns get tested at cost to shop.
Up to £5k fine PER GUN.

Those 4 TMs or whatever other brand have just cost the retailer £20k in fines,up to an additional £2k in test fees plush the initial cost of purchase.

Again, if the retailer tests his guns..... At between £120 - £500 per gun, you cannot test them all. There is not £120 margin on a gun you will lose money hand over fist. However, for a manufacturer to change screws, switch to lead free solder etc, the price of the gun may increase a bit, but there will be nine of the consequences.

- - - Updated - - -

Excuse poor spelling.... Fat fingers and touch screen!

[PureSilver]

Re: TM in the UK

Cheers for the info, but I'm not saying that the effects of Customs seizure of non-Rohs-compliant goods for resale aren't severe. What I am saying is that if (as Esoterick says his is) a retailer is saying that it refuses/it is unable to stock guns that aren't Rohs-certified, that means that as of right now it won't have any guns to stock, as (insofar as I am aware) currently no airsoft manufacturer self-certifies their guns as Rohs-compliant, and therefore there are no Rohs-certified airsoft guns anywhere.

As the retailer does have non-TM guns in stock (which are, as before, not Rohs-certified) then clearly Rohs-compliance is not the reason the retailer isn't stocking TM's guns. In the future, when G&G and others do certify their guns, and TM doesn't, then not having Rohs certification would be a valid reason for not stocking TM's guns. But so long as no-one has Rohs certification, it's just an excuse; the retailer faces exactly the same risk importing uncertified G&G guns as it does importing uncertified TMs.

[loki7491]

Re: TM in the UK

Ahhhhhh, yes..... I understand your point now.

Well made!

[PureSilver]

Re: TM in the UK

Hah! It was a totally pointless point to make... But I am bored, awaiting repairs of my M14, so I'm skimming ZeroIn and seeing what floats to the top...

[Esoterick]

Re: TM in the UK

Cheers for the info, but I'm not saying that the effects of Customs seizure of non-Rohs-compliant goods for resale aren't severe. What I am saying is that if (as Esoterick says his is) a retailer is saying that it refuses/it is unable to stock guns that aren't Rohs-certified, that means that as of right now it won't have any guns to stock, as (insofar as I am aware) currently no airsoft manufacturer self-certifies their guns as Rohs-compliant, and therefore there are no Rohs-certified airsoft guns anywhere.

As the retailer does have non-TM guns in stock (which are, as before, not Rohs-certified) then clearly Rohs-compliance is not the reason the retailer isn't stocking TM's guns. In the future, when G&G and others do certify their guns, and TM doesn't, then not having Rohs certification would be a valid reason for not stocking TM's guns. But so long as no-one has Rohs certification, it's just an excuse; the retailer faces exactly the same risk importing uncertified G&G guns as it does importing uncertified TMs.

Yes it does seem pretty counter intuitive as a reason for not stocking TM guns, given what Loki and yourself have been saying. I'm tempted to ask them out of curiosity.

[1st commando]

Re: TM in the UK

Systema , WE Europe and Ares are all compliant . In actual fact PTWs have been compliant for some time which is why they have a CE etching on front sights of officially imported factory builds
More manufacturers will meet compliancy but it is a battle retailers will have to fight

[loki7491]

Re: TM in the UK

I heard that WE are being very pro-active in all of this and have been for a while.

[1st commando]

Re: TM in the UK

very much so , others will hopefully follow suit but expect TM to not bother

[PureSilver]

Re: TM in the UK

Systema , WE Europe and Ares are all compliant . In actual fact PTWs have been compliant for some time which is why they have a CE etching on front sights of officially imported factory builds

That's interesting - what's your source? WE wouldn't surprise me that much, actually; with a dedicated European arm and a relatively recent introduction to AEGs (after some years of only making GBB weapons) I can see why it would be easy and in their interests to get on with it. Systema obviously don't make a large number of weapons and those that they do make are already very expensive, so it would be relatively easy to sort out. Ares I'm more surprised by - what's Ares' interest in this? Is it to do with them needing to be certified to OEM on behalf of PTS, ASG, Cybergun and Umarex or something? Or are they just feeling helpful for once?

[1st commando]

Re: TM in the UK

I have the certificates

In truth the majority of factories made compliant systems for the last few years as many countries have similar laws . The big sticking point for us is getting the paperwork and other stipulations carried out