PTW Replicas.

[Maki]

Re: PTW Replicas.

If y'all want a good discussion of this look here:

Link Removed: Please read the forum rules

Here are the video reviews of the CTW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTsofonphh8

There are another 2 parts, and more to come.

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Nice to see its not just vapourware.

Im personally with Specialist, I much prefer the notion of the WE M4 over a Systema or CTW of any kind. These clones are still going to suffer their own issues, perhaps more so than the systema, and I dont want to have to pay 'a small fee' to get my gun working when Ive already spent enough for two (in the case of the CTW) or five or six (in the case of the systema) perfectly good AEGs.

Its academic IMHO as I think the PTW system is too unreliable and user unfriendly to warrant the cost (and I realise this will be savaged by PTW owners as I understand you have to defend a grandsworth of purchase but this is just my personal opinion).

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Crimsonfalcon on another forum that allows both US and UK members has had a prototype to test and review (and has taken pictures for the doubters out there) and confirmed the body is aluminium alloy and that he prefers it to his existing PTW revision one. Apparently the piston is also better, as well as the inner barrel (ported and crowned 6.01 bull barrel as standard), and the gun is also generally more reliable out of the box.

For 900$ less that seems pretty damn conclusive that this is a serious threat to Systemas crown. Airsplat have apparently confirmed their first order and will be the first US retailer to retail them but itll be a while till they get over here most likely.

[sheard]

Re: PTW Replicas.

the ptws are reliable! its not that the hop ups bad its just could be a lot better i mean have you ever heard of people getting 10cm groupings at 70m with a aeg? (thats after the mod) ((I'm not counting RW's Barret in that equation because that just takes the p!))

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Sorry I wasnt meaning Systemas werent reliable, I just meant the CTWs apparently work a bit better out the box. Poor phrasing I apologize.

[tallbloke]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Sorry to say but the review is flawed....

His "strength test" is a knife against the body - how hard was he pushing how sharpe is his knife?

He prefers the gun over his gen 1 PTW? that like me saying I prefer my 2009 Mondeo over a old 1960's reliant because it has more technical goodies like electric heated windscreen, climate control, adaptive cruise control despite the fact that they were'nt evented. Sorry but gen ones are Crap and very old now. - We are many generations down the road from then. If anything he should be comparing it to a 2007 MAX PTW as thats whats is cloned... hang one, a 2008 as they (PTW) have advanced further since the 2007 model.

Also you can't really say his review is fair... most of the time he blabbers one about external quality - without proof & comapres everything to a CA or G&P... Surley you should review against what its cloning. Many people did that with TM vs JG vs CA with G36's - but oh wait can't do that with a PTW - and for those that say gen 1 is a PTW so fair. The differences between Gen 1 & the current 2008 models is huge! its like comparing the cars mentions above.

As for better out of the box...... I seriously doubt it. I'd love to be proved wrong but I just can't see it happening. This is a company thats saying things are better yet they have ignored the flaws on the PTW with regards to improving them but just ripped them off. Oh and a small hop mod on a PTW gets you 1ft groupings at about 70m+ at 425fps consistantly & reliabily. I'd love to do the same mod on a CTW & see if it still performs as well

Finally things I want to know about. Whats the warranty like? - where are the approved service centres? Will they still be working fine after 250,000+ rnd without issue. What EXACTLY are these "improved parts" both the reviewer & other "stockists" keep going on about without actually telling people.

Edit: The latest video by celcius shows them making their CTW & just how inconsistant it is with FPS's ranging from 250ish up to 375ish. Really consistant & good that!

[Another]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Ok... After quickly watching over that video, quick few things.

The BB follower-me-thing (I can't remember it's name) is not attached to the spring inside the mag and can come out. The guy seems to think this is not a problem... First reload your going to lose that or as one replier said if that goes into your hop thats going to be fun.But apparently thats going to be fixed...

Oh, and apparently you have to press the magazine release to insert new mags. Surely that defeats one of the major draws of the M4 which is slick mag changes (only thing I hate on my G36, thinking of going with the M4 magwell conversion. The reviewer says he's going to bang the mag out with a hammer...

My god does his voice grate, like honestly, it's the kind of voice people purposely put on to annoy other people.

Fair bit of wobble in that handgaurd in the 3rd part of the video.

Yeah... rather not be paying for any of that. I Shall continue to save and dream of a Systema

[specialist]

Re: PTW Replicas.

......or you could save alot less for the closest thing in Airsoft to a real M4- the WE M4GBB PTW. No electronics are needed to simulate M4 functions with the WE- it really does have a bolt that locks back, a real working charging handle, a real forward assist and it does not sound like a sewing machine! With steel barrel, steel internals and changeable steel bolt for different FPS, you have a rock solid M4 PTW that can run on C02 for all year round use. The 0.22 real steel equivalent recoil completes the PTW experience.

I think a systema replica will have much less success in denting Systema sales than the WE M4 GBB PTW. All the major drills you perform with a real M4, you can perform (and not pretend as you would have to do with a Systema).

I think the real threat to systema is the revolution in Assualt rifle GBB technology and not another Systema clone

[music_man613]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Was fortuant enought to have ago on the Noveske N4 GBB today (basically a WE M4 re-traded with Noveske markings with NO internal difference), the WA M4 GBB and also the G&P M4 GBB.
And i have got to say the G&P was by far the best, not the conclusion i wanted today as i was ready to buy a WE M4 GBB because it was cheaper and still did the same job as the WA just a 30rd mag instead of the 50rd mag the WA uses.
Now the Noveske N4 had a problem today as when three of us fired less than 60rds in around 2-3mins it froze up and expelled all the gas from the mag(we were dry firing it tho in case that makes any real difference), it also didnt have a big kick on it either i have fired live SA80 and LSW so am comparing to that. also when speaking to the sales guy the N4 didnt come with the shorter length inner barrel unlike the WE M4 and there was no sign of the RAS/RIS kit or the Firepig flash hider they advertise but we didnt ask about them.
The WA we used fired fine, amazing system visually looking inside the breach and the recoil to produces very life like. but it has a plastic body tho making it a bit light for me and the already known faults with it were my reasons i was going to avoid buying one, also the mag cost was another reason. We were recommended to wait for the G&P version instead.
The G&P we found at another shop today absolutely amazing full metal nice wieght to it the kind were its not really heavy and not really light the happy medium(never held a real M4 to compare), the bolt is exactly the same system as the WA but has been upgraded, really quite accurate, we fired around 80rds in about 2-3mins on semi and auto bursts(same as we did with the N4) the mag got cold like the N4 but it carried on firing and it didnt expel all the valuable gas. The G&P is basically a WA but with the WA's problems fixed with quality G&P kit and there are a few refinements ie the charginbg handle catch is of a better design. still got the mag cost but got to be worth it this rifle was amazing completely changed my mind about it i even put a deposit down on one.
As for the PTW and CTW I have owned a PTW and dearly wish i hadnt sold it but circumstances dictated i had to, now i am getting this lovely G&P M4 GBB i still want a PTW aswell because there is a different appeal for me i cant describe it all i know is when i have both choosing which gun to use will be a amazimg choice to be making but a hard one to decide.
I have looked at getting a CTW instead but a few things deter me no one has used it in the general airsoft market to really field test it and find any problems it may have whereas the PTW has been tried and tested by 1000s of airsofters for years. As previosuly mentioned CTW service centres/dealers in the UK, with the PTW you have got businesses and people like Tackleberry on another forum. And lets face it if PTWs were that bad they wouldnt be selling would they?

[specialist]

Re: PTW Replicas.

The WE M4 GBB PTW does not like the large quantity of silicone lube in Green Gas. Too much lube can (or will) cause mis-feeds and possible venting- happened once with me. You need to run the WE on propane with little green gas. After 9,000 rounds (that's a lot of 30 round mags!) my WE GBB has not mis behaved apart from very rare misfire fixed by applying the (real steel 'SPORTS') check drill! That drill would not work with a Systema PTW

Whilst the GBB Noveske PTW version has same WE internals, re-installation of WE internals into a new body may not have the same precision of the original factory build and may (or likely will) affect quality. I'm quite happy with the engraved Colt trades of the Version 2 PTW.

The build, operation and features of the WE GBB PTW are unmatched by Systema or any Systema clones. I can certainly appreciate that may unpalatable to Systema operators but GBB based PTW technology is here now at less than half price of a Systema PTW.

[Another]

Re: PTW Replicas.

After the initial set up costs, WE M4 + Enough mags to be able to hold a firefight in a skirmish. How much does it cost in Gas to skirmish the gun, say in a year?

[specialist]

Re: PTW Replicas.

I think a max of eight mags but you could probably get away with 6 if you can execute good tactical mag changes, good kit layout and exercise good trigger control. Combined with the best accuracy you can tune, you should be OK witn 6 but 8 sounds better! Each mag is £35.

You will also want (but not essential) a gas container such as the GB-Tech dummy grenade although this is more for Milsim type games They cost £40. You can get two 30 round worth on one gas re-fill. Gas costs around £10 (max) for a propane bottle. I think you can get about 20 mag fills from one propane container.

So 8 mags @ £35 each plus GB-Tech @ £40. So I don't think it'll be that much more expensive to run.

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: PTW Replicas.

To be fair to the poor guy his voice isnt his fault and he does say that his gen 1 isnt saying much, hes just comparing the CTW with what hes got to go on. Hes not going to go out and buy a latest model version just for the sake of comparison. Also to a certain extent people who have bought a PTW are gonna rip it to shreds anyway (considering it was accused of being vapourware only on the previous page).

I havent seen the videos as my laptop doesnt run em but there do seem to be some problems in there his review seems to gloss over. Im gonna duck my head down before some PTW owners come to my house and castrate me, but I still think for the lower price the CTW is gonna be worth it for technical minded people who want to sort it out, and simultaneoulsy help drive the prices of PTWs down to more affordable levels. Im sure systemas will still be better but imho no M4 is £1200's worth of better. I personally prefer the We-tech M4 myself, agree with spec that more gbb rifles would be great to see.

Running to hide from the ptw owners association now

[specialist]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Any competition to Systema is only good for Airsofters. Let's hope Celcius makes a good job of it and push prices down.

However, the real competition to Systema is from GBB M4 rifles. The WE M4 GBB PTW outclasses the Systema PTW in every department at half the cost and with a fraction of the complexity. I also think its the most understated Airsoft Weapon so far but apparently Spanish Special Forces are looking at it. It's ability to dry fire exhibiting the same mechinical behaviour as when loaded presents indoor 'safe' and 'clean' training.

I love the smell of propane in the morning.

I think I hear the sewing machines coming after me too!

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: PTW Replicas.

Hehe spec we're marked men