TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

recently I purhcased a threaded outer barrel from Evike.

When installing the new outer barrel, i noticed it was steel, and obviously wouldnt bend like the original outer barrel, which is plastic.

to actually fit the inner barrel into the outer required a bit of filing, which i did to the best of my abilities. Its not quite the same shape, but seems to keep the inner barrel in the right place.

HOWEVER

when installed back in the pistol, the slide will jam when being pulled back. It feels like its grinding to a halt, rather than being blocked by anything full stop. Its sometimes possible to push the slide forward again into a firing position, but i struggled to do this the last time i tried.

The inner barrel has a small black piece that pushes against the outer barrel during operation, and as far as i can tell, the two seem to be sticking or something, but this doesnt explain why the slide keeps jamming, or as far as I understand i cant explain it.

Is there someting else i may be overlooking?

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

as an update, i just filed down the inside of the barrel because it seemed like parts of the frame on the inside where causing parts to catch, and it seems to be cocking a little better. just tested with approx 50 slide pull backs and no jams, but i does feel very stiff when the gun is pointing down, when pointing up it felt a lot better.

During the shooting test the pistol had trouble with the slide motion. It would kick back fine, but during the end of the half mag it stopped sliding back to its normal position, and would require a tap to get it back there. whether this was due to a lack of gas or what im not sure

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Another update, for anyone who comes accross a similar issue. The problem is that the new barrel is metal. After several mags, the metal barrel gets cold as the gas is pumped though it. (have a feel of your pistol mag after you shoot it a lot!) this causes the inner barrel and other parts to stick together and not flow properly due to the cold. This can be fixed by permanently attaching the two parts together, as they do not need to come apart during operation, only for maintenance.

another issue which i had completely overlooked is the requirement for a new recoil spring, as the new outer barrel is heavier than the plastic stock version, and the spring doesnt have quite enough oompf to slam it back as it should do.

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Permanently attaching which 2 parts together? If you're talking about the inner and outer, don't attach them. The outer needs to move over the inner for proper operation.

I don't think you should need a new recoil spring either. If the slide is rubbing against the outer barrel, fix that problem. Don't compensate with a bigger recoil spring.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

both the guy in the shop and the big cheese at my site advised a spring as the slide works wonderfully when the spring is taken out of play a bit (point the gun up, but pointing it down the spring has to work harder and does slide as well.

[Sam56]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Kinda sounds like what happened to my meu when i put a Nineball SAS barrel in. The barrel lugs do not always align with the slide shroud grooves and jam just before returning to battery easy fix just file and round off the Barrel Lugs like so

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the spring doesn't actually move the outer barrel. It moves the inner barrel. The outer barrel should be free to move by itself. If you point the gun up, and pull the outer barrel forwards while racking the slide, and it jams, I'd like to know. Sounds like something I've had a problem with before.

If this is the case, lock the slide back, and point the gun upwards. Then tell me if when you lift the outer barrel, you can feel any spring pressure on it, or just gravity. You shoudln't feel any spring pressure, if you do, I'd imagine something is wrong there. You should be able to pull it a certain distance, then it you'll notice the barrel wants to move up. This causes it to push into the slide and jam. You can release the slide catch and nothing will move. You'll probably notice, than when it jams while being pointed down, you can give it a tap on the front of the barrel, and it'll release.

I would be hessitent to listen to the big cheese and the guy in the shop.

Whacking a bigger return spring in there might seem like it'll fix the problem, and it might just provide enough power to overcome the increased resistence of the badly installed parts, but it will have it's drawbacks, and still might not work flawlessly. Heavier springs provide more resistence in the recoil motion, and reduce gas efficiency. Is having a metal barrel really worth these drawbacks to a pistol that works flawlessly with a plastic barrel?

This flaw is particular to TM and TM based hicapa/1911 pistols. You don't get it with WA. WA have a spring inside the barrel which encourages it to stay in it's correct position. TM rely upon the slide moving the barrel to it's correct position, and if the fit is loose, the barrel does what it wants and causes this jamming issue.

Unfortunately, I can't currently offer a simple solution to this, as I haven't had a chance to experiment with it. It may be that what the guy above said works, or that might actually make it worse. I've no idea. I'm just saying, I don't think a huge spring will fix your problems. Untill you know what the problem actually is, and how all these parts interact with each other, you maby shouldn't be spending your money on a part that might not fix it.

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Additional:

According to a well known HK airsoft shop, and it's techie, if you file down the fin on the back of the outer barrel, it will tilt down earlier, and stop this problem from occuring. I'm not sure what they mean by the fin though. Turns out I'm going to be doing this in a couple of days anyway, so if you're willing to wait I can provide pictures.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Ive already done this, and it stopped the jamming. the only issue now is the not so firm slide motion when the slide is racked when the gun is pointing down. No the outer barrel does not move, but the slide moves, this is where the spring comes into play. The spring is compressed when the slide is pulled back

[Sam56]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

Simple Question What gas are you using.

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

I kinda see what you're getting at. I do think there's something fundementally wrong with the idea that having a heavier barrel will cause such problems. As I said before WA pistols don't have this problem. As my friend intends to use his 1911 with a silencer, and the metal barrel I have in front of me seems to be suffering from the same problems as yours, I'm going to have a go at creating a WA outer barrel spring. So that when it's not under influence from the slide, the barrel will want to stay at it's rearmost position, and downwards. I'll post back if you like.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

surely a spring on the outside of the outer barrel will just jam up the slide in that spring? the recoil spring underneath the barrel already has the job of making sure its as far bas ai it needs to be when it shoots

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

The outside of the inner barrel. The recoil spring doesn't touch the outer barrel, and if the outer barrel jumps forwards for some reason during shooting (ie, gravity pulls it that way) then it's going to ride up and jam the slide, or at least cause some increased resistnece. The idea of the spring over the inner barrel, is to push the outer backwards when it's not got any other forces on it. So even gravity wont cause the barrel to ride up into the slide.

Get a WA pistol and admire the beauty of the idea. I don't know why TM don't do it as well. Just relying on the barrel staying where it's put, is a little bit hopeful if you ask me. WA make sure it'll be in the right place, all the time. As such, they don't generally suffer when used with metal barrels (and have them stock mostly), and can be silenced without worry as well.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

I imagine TM dont do it because it sounds very complicated and just adds parts that can go wrong. The same spring that pushes the outer barrel in place also pushes the inner barrel on the TM Model

[dope_on_a_rope]

Re: TM Hi Capa 5.1 Slide and barrel issues

What spring pushes the outer barrel?

The inner barrel is held in place by the slide catch. The outer barrel then sits over this, and at no point touches the recoil spring. The recoil spring in a way does have some effect, because it's acting on the slide, which is in turn acting on the outer barrel.

It's not terribly complicated, and it actually makes sure things go right, all the time. Not to mention reducing the load carried by the slide on it's way back. But it does add a little resistence to the slides return to battery.

Aside from explaining how WA are actually doing a good thing with this spring, I was going to say that I've just installed a metal barrel in a pistol, filed down the fin a little bit - so it moves downwards earlier - and the whole thing works fine. I think I know where you've gone wrong, but you woudln't listen anyway.