is this a good next GBBR?

[PureSilver]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

i also heard that the WA and G&P systems were very similar and crap - lots of problems etc and if they were going to be of use at all would require alot of work.

They aren't very similar - they're the same; G&P licensed WA's design as "WA Official Custom" ('WOC'). They categorically aren't crap but they are definitely going to suffer if you don't know what you're doing when it comes to maintaining them.

also heard that parts market for WE's was very good AND if one shinny day i was able to afford a l85 i wouldn't have to buy new mags which is a bonus.

keeping an open mind i just looked at ra-tech again to see what they did in way of WA stuff and found nothing which pretty much puts them out of the running for that reason alone.

RA-Tech make a ton of parts for the WA system... Pretty much everything on their site under the 'WA', 'Ino' and 'PRIME' headings will fit a WA-system gun. Again, though, RA-Tech's stuff is mid-range - it's OK, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all. If you want to see WA parts support, just type 'WA M4' into any retailer you like. But if the WE calls out to you, go for it - but you need to make a friend that knows the system well, and quickly! If you can't tell whether there's something wrong with a GBBR unless parts are hanging off it, you don't know enough to troubleshoot it when something less subtle goes wrong. If you have a local tech, they should be able to help - also consider joining GasGuns.info if you haven't already, it's a goldmine of information for GBBR shooters.

[Strebor_7]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

Yeah don't under estimate the acalibility of parts for wa/woc's, there is tones of it out there! That's the main reason I switched systems! Yeah woc's/Wa's have there faults but so much more options with them, and when there working well they work amazingly!!!

Either way no matter what system you choose there are parts avalible and they will work and they will break! But my god there fun to use!!! And to me that's worth the hastles of GBBR's!

[messy]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

didnt see a wa section but didnt know those other parts worked for WA, what i was really getting at those is they dont do any pre-upgraded wa guns (less effort but also cheaper to buy it like that). i dont know the ins and outs and signs of ware etc but then again i never will until i get one and use it regularly :P

good shout on the gbb site :D

[PureSilver]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

They do make 'pre-upgraded' 'WA' guns - I'm pretty sure the RA-Tech 'own-brand' guns are WA system - so the M4A1 Standard and M4A1 RAS are both WA-system. Specifically, they're OEM'd for RA-Tech by Taiwan Deer, who used to OEM Inokatsu's rifles (much like Viper did) so they're the same forged-body RS-size extended-WA-spec as Inokatsu/PRIME/Viper. It might be worth asking RA-Tech whether they'd recommend the WE CQBR or their M4A1 STD, since there's only $75 between them.

But yeah, honestly? I would join GGi and have a look around on there, there are people who know a lot more about all of these systems than the rest of us on there.

[messy]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

aa well, their own brand ones seem a bit too expensive, the STD (lol) is about $100 over budget

one last question - will the upgraded we withstand co2 mags?

[tisane]

Easily mate.

What you get in the RA-tech M4 you are looking at is more than enough of an "upgrade" to make that gun FAR FAR more reliable into the future than a standard WE.
Yes you can upgrade the body, but why, it's solid.

Yes you can upgrade the BCG and nozzle, but why, that particular part has been documented to increase gas consumption and the alu nozzle coupled with V2 NPAS can cause highly variable FPS, the nozzles don't break either with normal use so again no need to upgrade that.

Yes you can upgrade the trigger box, but why, there is no stress on that part per se, I'm yet to see a broken "trigger box" in all my time owning WE rifles.

No you can't upgrade the hop unit, but why would you, even without a hop rubber change its a decent enough unit in itself, with an RA-tech hop rubber you can't fault it.

If I was to change one thing in my RA M4 it would simply be the recoil buffer for a heavier one to give a slight increase in recoil without sacrificing my gas efficiency too much.

Other than that its perfect, and until it blows itself into next week nobody is going to convince me otherwise, I came back into GBBRs after having a bad experience with an AGM M4, my first port of call was WE, since then I've had nothing but (with the exeption of things that WE dont make like an MP7) and don't see myself changing anytime soon.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Yes, but the aluminium nozzle is a definite upgrade.

The RA tech ones look good. There's a video of him smashing a propane cylinder with it, then whacking a mag in and firing!

[tisane]

It's not really the nozzle I suppose more the erratic NPAS that comes with it, I've contemplated buying it for the M4 quite a few times, not sure if I can drop the V1 NPAS in it so haven't bothered up to now.

[PureSilver]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

Yes you can upgrade the BCG and nozzle, but why, that particular part has been documented to increase gas consumption and the alu nozzle coupled with V2 NPAS can cause highly variable FPS, the nozzles don't break either with normal use so again no need to upgrade that.

From what I've heard the WE M4 lunches its nozzles with CO₂, but that might be some CO2-specific nozzle, I can't remember how they were originally sold. Either way, like Boo-Sabum Ben says, the aluminium one's worthwhile and not so tough that it smashes BBs. Of course the RA-Tech bolt increases gas consumption - it's steel, so it takes proportionally more energy to move. So you get significantly more felt recoil, and since that was the reason messy discarded the LM4 I'm guessing he might be interested in that.

It's not really the nozzle I suppose more the erratic NPAS that comes with it, I've contemplated buying it for the M4 quite a few times, not sure if I can drop the V1 NPAS in it so haven't bothered up to now.

Is the V1 supposed to be better than the V2? I don't know if I've ever seen them distinguished before.

The RA tech ones look good. There's a video of him smashing a propane cylinder with it, then whacking a mag in and firing!

Yeah, that's Inokatsu for you. Brutally overpriced, brutally overbuilt.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

That wasnt the Inokhatsu, it was Ratechs 'Custom' ones. The knights/stoner/whatever it is one they make and sell as their own.

The aluminium nozzle is worth it if you have the budget. If youre a little tigh on funds, dont get it to start off with, but get it when the stock nozzle breaks.

That said, the stock nozzle doesnt have the NPAS, and the aluminium one comes with it all installed in, so once youve bought the NPAS anyway, you might as well do the nozzle while youre at it...

[loki7491]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

Standard nozzle is less than £20 IIRC
NPAS less than £20 too.

To fit the NPAS will take anybody with opposable thumbs and more brain capacity than a cheese sandwich about 10 minutes assuming you have fat fingers and dexterity is not your forte.

Even if you smash the crap out of a nozzle every 6 months the valve will be fine and can me re-used. It will take you nearly 4 years to spend the same amount in standard nozzles as it would the RATech one.

The trade off is you can be confident that the RATech nozzle will not go down on you mid-deciding-firefight-of-the-weekender.

Maths and money aside, i have every intention of upgrading my nozzle.

[messy]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

well the gun ill get will already have the npas installed - it doesnt mention anything about the nozzle tho and if its an expensive part youd think they'd bother to put it in the list of upgrades

[Heinz]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

RA-Tech's stuff is mid-range - it's OK, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all.

Agreed, 100%

RA-Tech make very average steel FCG parts and valve control parts from a not particularly good grade of steel, with a modified geometry (why on earth they did it, I have no idea)
TSC make very hard steel FCG parts and valve control parts with terrible QC (avoid!)
CWI make the best steel FCG parts and valve control parts currently available for the WE platform

I've used all the above, so those are first hand observations. However, there is also Hephaestus. I've not used them personally, but a friend who has rates them as being about the same as TSC.

Where WE really wins is with the magazine design. The Gen 2 magazines are far superior to the WA design (especially when it comes to leaking!), barring the later versions of the ProWin mags. They also benefit from being simpler as the WE design has the valve locker in the gat, whereas the WA design has them on the magazines - and i'm all for simpler (and cheaper lol). Not to mention the fact that I can fit them into real P-Mag shells....

If you want to increase the felt "recoil" of the WE (or WA), you don't have to upgrade the bolt (the RA-Tech is in fact only 13% heavier than the stock WE bolt), just replace the crappy WE aluminum buffer with a real-steel HHR grade buffer

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

True Loki, But I always look at these things as money wasted if I have to go to a backup gun on a skirmish day. Or if I dont have a spare, then thats a day rather ruined for me!

[Olphy]

Re: is this a good next GBBR?

What are those CO2 magazines like for the WA systems and how are they for overall skirmishability?

I've had several WEs, bloody good fun but I have never bought one stock that has made it to it's first skirmish without something critical breaking. The SCAR was lush but unreliable, the G39 performed excellently, I just don't like the G36 platform and my current AK is built like a Russian brick sh*t house externally but faithful to the metaphor internally it contains steaming crap! You could probably beat a bear to death with the stamped steel body alone though and every skirmish I have been to have had a queue of people admiring it and wanting a plink. You won't get that with an AEG.

RA Tech parts, in my experience are badly fitting and overpriced, from now when I upgrade I will go with Hephtaestus as their kit was a perfect fit without the need for any modding, unlike the plethora of RA-T bits I've had.