Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

[jagillham]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

UKARA is not the law.

Oh

[Rednaxelaa]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

think everyone has started doing a billy connelly here ( leading off on tangents ) as stated by myself and many others NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE spray painting a IF into a RIF is against the vcra rules set, unless they have a defence,
to answer the OP's question.

.Due to your age you cannot have a defense, nor do you need a defense as you cannot buy a if or rif.


IMO forget about laws and legislations, if you have a 2tone you want to 'cover up' do this on site with scrim or hessian, and remove before leaving the site, you then do not need to paint your gun, you also do not need to have to worry about a defense for the said gun as long as it is 2tone on transporting to and from the site,

as far as i am aware there are no laws or rules on 'camming' your weapon on skirmish sites, but am fully confident someone will correct me if i am wrong.

IMO to sum this all up

anyone maufacturing a RIF no matter their age without a defense for the said manufacture is contraveining (spelling) the said section of this act
i would say dont paint it, not because your under 18, but as you do not have a defense for doing so.

[jagillham]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Why can they not have defence? There is no min age for playing / being a regular.

[Caveira]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

NO MATTER WHAT THE AGE spray painting a IF into a RIF is against the vcra rules set, unless they have a defence

100% correct

Due to your age you cannot have a defense

Show us where in any of the legislation (VCRA, the realistic imitation firearms regulations, the guidance notes and the implementation orders) it mentions age in relation to anything other than in section 40 (which ONLY mentions purchasing/sales) and then we'll accept this. Until then stop spouting the cr*p put out there by UKARA as though they have a right to decide what is legal or not!

[Andrew March]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Because when you are under the age of 18 certain aspects of law pass the responsibility to your parent or guardian, now I'm not saying this is one of them but is it worth the trouble and grief involved when surely the easiest thing to do until you are 18 is use scrim or removeable camo tape as suggested.

We can all go on quoting pieces of legislation and defences against said legislation but the bottom line is the officer on the street at the time of stopping you is the one (along with guidance from thier FCC (force control centre)) who will decide whether to arrest you. So surely better safe than sorry is the rule to follow. Now I don't know of anyone at the moment that has been arrested regaring the RIF/IF aspects of the VCRA but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened and it dopesn't mean it won't happen.

If we want to carry on playing our game/sport in it's current format then it is our responsibility to ensure we do everything not to upset the law, otherwise in a couple of years the home office could simply say 'this isn't working' and 'we are banning it completely'.

I know what I would prefer!

[Gaffa]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

As your quoted legislation shows, our defence is specifically against section 36. Section 36 includes manufacture and modification, but it does not mention age anywhere. Age is mentioned in section 40 which makes no mention of manufacturing or modification. Here's a link to see that I'm correct on this:

Is it just me, or is this really simple...

If our defence that I, and others have, is specifically against the manufacture or modification, then surely if you don't have a defence, then you cannot manufacture or modify...?

And by the way, to get an UKARA number, you must play 3 times in no less than 2 months but in no more than 12 months. Ie, you can skirmish once in January, February and March, and be eligible for registration, but you cannot play twice in January and once in February and expect that the same applies - if your skirmish site registers you for this then they're actually going against UKARAs idea of "regular skirmisher".

[Rednaxelaa]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

can someone explain to me what exactly people are meaning by DEFENSE? imo ( use this alot so i dont sound like i am trying to state a fact, i am not and never will be a lawyer) back to my opinion..... ahem... IMO our defense is that we have our ukara numbers, which yes is not law, BUT is the defense that has been accepted by the laws and vcra to prove we have done our obligratory 3, and are over 18

[Gaffa]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

As above:

(1) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of any conduct to show that the conduct was for the purpose only of making the imitation firearm in question available for one or more of the purposes specified in subsection (2).

(2) Those purposes are—
(a) the purposes of a museum or gallery;
(b) the purposes of theatrical performances and of rehearsals for such performances;
(c) the production of films (within the meaning of Part 1 of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (c. 48)_see section 5B of that Act);
(d) the production of television programmes (within the meaning of the Communications Act 2003 (c. 21)_see section 405(1) of that Act);
(e) the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;
(f) the purposes of functions that a person has in his capacity as a person in the service of Her Majesty.

(3) It shall also be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36 in respect of conduct falling within subsection (1)(d) of that
section to show that the conduct—
(a) was in the course of carrying on any trade or business; and
(b) was for the purpose of making the imitation firearm in question available to be modified in a way which would result in its ceasing to be a realistic imitation firearm.

So if you have an UKARA number, I believe this would fall under defence E.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Does a membership at a site count as a valid defense?

Is it just me, or is this really simple...

If our defence that I, and others have, is specifically against the manufacture or modification, then surely if you don't have a defence, then you cannot manufacture or modify...?

Read this document, which contains the so-called "Airsoft Defence":
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

The defence is against the WHOLE OF SECTION 36 (the "paragraph 4 of schedule 2" reference is to the equivalent part of the VCRA relating to Northern Ireland).

There is no mention of age whatsoever.