"imitating" soldiers

[sk8inmadkid]

Now, airsoft is essentially a fun game/sport (Depends on how serious you take it!)

So, when it comes to loadouts, I see a lot of people in the main uniforms, British Forces CS95's and US forces camoflague. Thats never caused a commotion to anyone, and nobody thinks anything of it, generally.

When it comes to people wanting to make it that little bit more realistic, for whatever reason, fun, or milsim etc, and they start adding more details, such as particular weapons in accordance to the uniform they're wearing, and the real steel parts (Such as an L85, with a SUSAT instead of carry handle, as thats what the British forces use) to make them look the part, again, people generally dont bat an eyelid. But when they make that final effort and pay attention to detail, such as TRF's (Tactical Recognition Flashes), Brigade Badges, and things such as specialist qualification badges (Sniper, Support Gunner, Signaller etc) and then onto particular berets (Whether it be Para, Marine or Household Cavalry), is that where you draw the line? It was a discussion I was having with a mate, I wouldnt mind if someone was wearing Royal Anglian Colours, and beret and badge into a skirmish, providing they didnt tell people they were actually serving in the Anglians themselves. What do you guys think? Especially aimed at the ex-forces among you, would you get offended or pissed off if you spent time in say, 2PARA, and you saw someone with wings, red beret, para capbadge and a 2PARA TRF (Edit who hadnt actually done P-company and the jumps course and earned any of the above??

Its quite an interesting debate to me, and Just want to know what you guys think as to people getting details to specific battalions and regiments on the kit theyre wearing


Looking forward to replies!


Jon

[Panoptes]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

...would you get offended or pissed off if you spent time in say, 2PARA, and you saw someone with wings, red beret, para capbadge and a 2PARA TRF... who hadnt actually done P-company and the jumps course and earned any of the above??

I'd be inclined to introduce them to my Type 56's bayonet, yes. There are too many walts in airsoft. Skirmishing's fine but walk the walk if you're going to talk the talk.

[Callum117]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

In my opinion anything is acceptable until you start adding ranks and unit badges, so yes I think this should be where you draw the line. Unless of course you have actually served in said battalion/ regiment and you wear old dpms you wore in the forces.

[santa]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

i started something like this earlier this month

http://www.zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30938

[drmike]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

Yep,
I will go along with what has been said already.
As regards, extras like SUSAT, ACOG etc. there are good practical reason to use these. That goes for your camo gear as well, but not real military insignia.
If I look for army surplus clothing and come across ranks or battalion insignia, I give it a wide berth, because I would feel obliged to remove the insignia and that for me would ruin a valid historical artefect.
Surely, you only get to wear the real insignia at a historical re-enactment.
If you want insignia then come up with your own team badges etc.
The only people who should be deserving of insignia in airsoft are the people who have actually served...they have earned it.

[steve4360]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

i think id find it quite a complement to come across anyone wearing the insignia of any of the units ive served in and i would definately go over and have a chat with that person and ask them if they knew any of the history behind the regt, i think as long as the individual didnt pretend to have served in that unit, i cant see the problem. I find that the people who have the most problem with this subject are the people who havent served in the forces, ive never heard anyone moan about people wearing authentic uniforms for WW2 games yet they are still wearing regt insignia!
Respect is the key, if you are going to wear it, then know what you are wearing.

[Panoptes]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

If it's re-enactment, then fine.

[BZFMIII]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

If it's re-enactment, then fine.

Hi All
This is an interesting debate for me, as I'm pretty new to the game and see a lot of opinions that I wouldn't encounter in the paintball arena.
Q. What exactly is 'milsim'. I don't wish to be incongrous of anybodys' opinion of the game but if I want to be realistic I'd re-enact.

milsim seems (to me - hence the question) a way to dress up role playiing. If I encountered a site owner/game organiser that insisted that I couldn't participate unless I HAD to have a particular non-essential item or RIF (lets not enter the two tone debate yet!!). Then I'd respect his opinion as organiser but I'd consider him sadly limited in what he brings to an exciting, social and extremely fun pastime. In this respect Fantasies are for fantasists.

Now can anyone tell me of any good sites in essex/kent?

[steve4360]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

think all airsoft is a type of re-enactment, its a sort of non lethal combat much the same as the forces use military exercises as practice for real warfare. anyone who has done FIBUA training in the army will instantly be at home in airsoft.
If just one or two lads join the army because of playing airsoft then we should all be greatful, and to brand them as walts just because they have an affinity to one regt or another is wrong, remember we all run around the woods on a weekend shooting plastic balls at each other! and we all spend a fortune on shiny new bits to make our toys look like the real thing! even those of us who have done the real thing.
i understand those people who have the opposite view but respect comes in many forms.

[insanity prawn boy]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

As long as you don't wander about actually claiming to genuinely have some kind of skill because you have a badge sewn to your shirt, why the hell not? If people think it's so wrong, they don't have to do it. They don't have to even look at or speak to you while you're doing it. Personally, I wouldn't bother but if somebody who's taken the time to really go all out to make themselves look awesome I'd likely give them a pat on the back for it. I'd much rather stick a Slayer patch on my arm in all honesty. I'm in the for fun but if people want to take it more seriously, let them. It's no skin off your back.

I know multiple guys in the Marines and Army, I mentioned this to two of them when they had a look at my guns and stuff and were asking what it was all about when they were round here and you know what? Neither of them gave a flying donkey's buttplug about somebody wearing a piece of cloth on their cammies. I don't know how many times this has been repeated or even brought up here but Airsofters are the only people that seem to care about this. Them and selected internet warriors are the only people who would care.

Until ranks and insignia are pulled from public retailers there's nothing that can be done anyway, other than casual discouragement of it. And in the event that I do decide to try and do an uber accurate loadout for XXX Special Forces or whatever, if anybody from any branch of any armed forced told me I was in some way being a pillock or doing something to cause offence I'd likely take that on board. Before people start flaming me, haha!

Like steve4360 has said. Respect is the key.

[Fizzy]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

I'd say if you get offended by it, then perhaps airsoft is not for you, because you're always going to get people dressing up with all the bells and whistles.

[Caveira]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

Badges bother me far less than berets. After all, the badge is given on day one, but you earn the right to wear it with the beret.

To give you an example. When I was at the RMP Training School, all transfers in to the RMP went back to a basic black beret, regardless of what regiment they had come from. One guy went regulars from the TA RMP and the CO told him that as he was a transfer in, he had to go back to the black beret with the rest of the recruits. The RSM told him (very clearly, from what we heard down the corridor) that this lad had served in Iraq, had been on the receiving end and got the rounds down and had, basically, earned the right to wear the red beret, despite never passing out as a regular RMP. The CO took it on board and this was the only time any of us saw a transfer wearing a red cap.

[shoreham]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

It's all down to individual tastes. Somebody will be upset if you go all the way, down to the exact insignia and badges. Some will be upset if you mix and match camo and don't look like a soldier. Go with what you feel comfortable with - if you want to dress as a US Marine, Para, SAS or just throw together whatever is cheap and works for you then it's your choice. Some people get offended by long hair, some by piercings, and some by shaved heads and big boots. It's all down to personal choice, and no two people will match exactly.
We're all just playing at it after all, with our own money. I can see how people get upset at others wearing medals they didn't win, but that's about all they can truly object to.
Some people like to get the exact details of the impression spot-on, some don't care as long as they can play and enjoy it.

And remember, it's supposed to be fun.

[nice_guy_andy]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

I shall repeat what I said the last time this subject appeared: The general consensus is, wear what you like just do not say you are something your not.

People "walt" in all walks of life not just airsoft.

I am ex serving and I dont care what people wear on their toy uniforms when they play toy soldiers on a toy battlefield with toy guns. However I do listen out for people claiming to be something they are not. They can usually be found out quickly and a short barrage of certain questions can usually show they are not who they claim to be just like the old favorite "What colour is the boathouse in Hereford?"

Perhaps something on this subject could be stickied to cut down on the repetition?

[Millzy]

Re: "imitating" soldiers

I'm serving at present, nothing as hardcore as paras or commando's but I think there is a fine line when it goes from re-enactment to disrespect. Well, maybe not so much disrespect but maybe a slight 'lack' of respect. Turning up in an old smock that still has it's 1 UK Armoured division patch, there isn't a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. IF however someone turns up wearing a maroon beret, wings, stable belt (gawd knows why!) etc then it's getting a bit much. The berets, wings, daggers etc are commonly a symbol of pride at what the individual had to go through to get them. I wouldn't be too bothered if someone tipped up wearing an Engineer TRF as it's not a big thing for me. I'd probably start chatting to them, if then I found out he's not serving, well . . . I dunno, I'd cross that bridge when I came to it lol.

A good friend of mine (who also airsofts) is a former pathfinder, He occasionally wears his wings depending what kit he's got with him on the day (they don't really go with tiger-stripe :D). Trouble is though, that also invites questioning. As Shaun's quite geekey looking & probably not what you'd think a Pathfinder would look like, he had some 17yr old numpty come upto him & ask "Haha, you earned those wings?!" . . . . I swear he almost got a left hook . . . . lol

As far as medals go (I mean ACTUAL medals, not "team medals"), that's a massive no no. Some people probably don't realise what these chaps go through earning these medals. Obviously wearing them in respect of a deceased soldiers a bit different lol