What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

[Phil_Anthropist]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

You know I really don't know what people are complaining about...

The seller, who is responsible for the transaction needs two things from the buyer.

WRONG

And if the ID is fake, who cares?

Wrong attitude.

And if the seller does not ask for these, then its enirely his own fault.

Correct

Oh, and zeroone acually offer a service now for second hand sales...so use that if your feeling so unhappy with people buying bb guns![/B]

If I am unhappy about people buying bb guns, how is ME using that "service" going to stop others abusing the rules (ergo the Law)?

Just for reference:

40 Supplying imitation firearms to minors (1) After section 24 of the 1968 Act insert—

24A Supplying imitation firearms to minors (1) It is an offence for a person under the age of eighteen to purchase an imitation firearm.

(2) It is an offence to sell an imitation firearm to a person under the age of eighteen.

Section 24A(1) or (2) Acquisition by a minor of an imitation firearm and supplying him.

Summary In England and Wales, 51 weeks or a fine of level 5 on the standard scale, or both. In Scotland, 6 months, or a fine of level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

[Chowder Head]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

Certain people will always try to find a way round things but we have to make it as hard for people to break the rules as possible.

What would you rather have? a slightly smaller sport that operates sensibly and safely, OR, no sport at all because it's been banned?

But at the same time we shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for genuine skirmishers to follow the rules ether.

I tried to say this in my last post but it got edited...Could we please stop with the scaremongering BS that airsoft will be totally banned in the UK.

It is completely unrealistic that the government would close down hundreds of skirmish sites and hundreds of airsoft shops all over the country in one sudden move because of some idiot buying a RIF he isn't supposed to have.

There may not be that many airsofters in the UK compared to other countrys but their certainly would be a major uproar.

[hoggy21]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

I think some people need to go and read the VCRA thread i put up.
Some people need to read the forum rules also.
It is the sellers responsability. I will always ask to see their membership/ukara registration, but thats me. If people are going to sell illegally, fine. Theres nothing i can do about it. But they may wish to consider that they could possibly ruin the sport.

As for locking the sales section, what a bone idea. Im not registered, and i still use the sales section. Remember gents, you dont NEED to be registered, you just need to prove your a skirmisher. I will have it known the only people ive dealt with on the forum know me and have seen me playing at GZ. Add to that the site staff know me, and is that not enough proof?

Point proven. Im off to carry on watching House.

[Phil_Anthropist]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

But at the same time we shouldn't be making it as hard as possible for genuine skirmishers to follow the rules ether.

I tried to say this in my last post but it got edited...Could we please stop with the scaremongering BS that airsoft will be totally banned in the UK.

It is completely unrealistic that the government would close down hundreds of skirmish sites and hundreds of airsoft shops all over the country in one sudden move because of some idiot buying a RIF he isn't supposed to have.

There may not be that many airsofters in the UK compared to other countrys but their certainly would be a major uproar.

Scaremongering?

Unrealistic that the Govt. would close down sites and shops?

Major Uproar?

Do I need to remind you of two other groups that were banned due to the actions of two people. I know that it's slightly different (as they were real firearms), but if they had no compunction when effectively putting hundreds of people out of work and business in past years, what would stop them doing it again?

Btw, I refer to Semi Auto Rifle Ban in the '80's after Hungerford and the Pistol Ban in 1997 after Dunblane. Both of which caused me to loose a sport I loved, PLEASE don't get me wrong, if I thought it could have brought one of the innocent back I would have gladly given up any/all of my Firearms (as would any other member of the sport, but look at gun crime now.

[Oath]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

I think some people need to go and read the VCRA thread i put up.
Some people need to read the forum rules also.
It is the sellers responsability. I will always ask to see their membership/ukara registration, but thats me. If people are going to sell illegally, fine. Theres nothing i can do about it. But they may wish to consider that they could possibly ruin the sport.

As for locking the sales section, what a bone idea. Im not registered, and i still use the sales section. Remember gents, you dont NEED to be registered, you just need to prove your a skirmisher. I will have it known the only people ive dealt with on the forum know me and have seen me playing at GZ. Add to that the site staff know me, and is that not enough proof?

Point proven. Im off to carry on watching House.

Well said, it's also worth remembering that you don't need to be registered to sell, so locking the sale thread to people who aren't UKARA registered, would prevent people who have already got RIFs from before Oct 1st from selling them.

[GrumpyGit]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

Phil pointed me towards this. I don't tend to frequent Airsoft forums much, I tend to stick to historical reenactment ones (just as much infighting, but we do it in stuff designed 70 years ago lol)

From an "outsiders" point of view, The UKARA system, is, in my view, deeply flawed. A system to provide a defence from the VCRA that's run by the very people it defends. How long would it take a half-decent QC to stand up in court and state "vested interests"? When you have site operators that also retail, then it just compounds the issue.

There is only one way to do it and REALLY cover ya butt. A 100% totally independent system.

Oh yeah, whats with the cost of memberships at most sites? I pay 20 quid a year for my re-enactment membership. That gets me personal accident insurance at events, kit insurance & public liability insurance. And gives me proof of entitlement to buy RIF's. Did someone say earlier that some sites are charging 50 quid a year? Jesus H Christ, that's one hell of a rip off!

[ermgravy]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

ukara is not a proven deffence, we are all inbrech of uk law wether u are prepared 2 admit it, the vcr bil neglecs age so age does not even figure, sell buy or own a rif u are in breach of the law, ukara may or may not stop u from being prosicuted but thats not been proven...

[tracnav]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

to be honest i do believe phil's head is in the right mind set but at the moment this is the first i've heard of someone complaining about under 18's. but before i get ragged for this comment, we as the sport cannot allow a slip up. we all no how sensative it was to even get the UKARA and at one point we thought the end was near. I completely agree with PHil,and if one slip up of an under 18 purchasing a RIF get's to the media and thats airsoft over people. end of

[Fizzy]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

"I understand there is a potential for someone to buy and miss use one, but thats like anything in life, so get used to it."

A slightly different thing to what happened in 1997 (Handgun Ban) but that sort of attitude is exactly the wrong sort of message we ought to be sending out to those who don't airsoft. What we NEED to do is reduce the chances of misuse to the lowest possible level, that way we can prove ourselves to be a responsible sport.

"I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law, but I just don't see why your so riled up about it"

Beacuse it is WRONG, plain and simple.

Well said Phil, not only is it wrong, but it also endangers the sport we all enjoy so much, which really does make me wonder why some people don't care. I guess they simply aren't bothered if the Govt. finally kills of Airsoft. Personally, I think if we can police ourselves then that helps us survive should the SHTF

[bigdave196]

Re: What can be done for people who don't obey the rules?

I completely agree with PHil,and if one slip up of an under 18 purchasing a RIF get's to the media and thats airsoft over people. end of

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8021628.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/b...re/8025182.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7955985.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/n...re/7954369.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/s...re/7739819.stm

5 news stories, all from the last 2 months, all about inappropriate use of BB guns by underaged users.

I don't see a threat to airsoft, the current laws are adequate enough to punish the culprits and the shops not complying with the law