TM Recoil Versus PTW

[mightyjebus]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

this is an old argument as the PTW owners will say that PTW's are best and the people who can't afford them will slate them. instead of looking at a PTW or a EBB have a look at the new Ares Beryl. It's going to come with a completely new style of gearbox which uses a new system called the non contact fire control system. this will cycle the gearbox completely every shot and works from 6v up to 15v. there is no selector plate, small springs etc so less to break.

and before people jump on here slating ares it might be worth mentioning that they are now owned by someone else and might be rebadged.

Oh and for the record I've built and owned 7 PTW's, own 5 EBB's (including the Army copy) and a few GBB's as well. If I was to pick one and one only it would be the PTW. BTW you can pick up a SCK kit for 790 quid.

[westywesty84]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

SCK's are all well and good but ideally you need proper armourer tools to do it though.

And that ARES mechbox---why would they put the PCB on the outside :-| still awesome that someones offering that kind of tech straight out of the box. Any idea on price?

[mightyjebus]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

no idea on price yet but knowing ares AEg's it's probably going to be in the 300 quid range.

[dadio]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

been doing airsoft for 14 years and what i recon is when you have a gun in you'r hand that "you" believe is on par with the best on the field you have a better day's shooting,however i could not justify spending between £750-£1300 to achieve this and nor is it necessary ,for £350 i can make a reliable high end performance gun the equal of any gun on the field,the gun that for me brings more to the party is the TM recoil and i'd rather start from there and work up,haveing the gun stop fireing when the mag is empty is often a tactical disadvantage in the field as even an empty gun fireing cap cause a flinch from an opponent that can save you.

[Black Templar]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

Must ask this, during these bun fights why does the phrase PTW say they are bestest and those that cannot afford them slag them off?
How insulting is that suggestion? Is it possible people could 'afford' them but after trying them just didn't get the hype?
I researched them and recoils also, recoil was more fun it's a game made me happy so got the Sopmod. I could buy a systema today with mags/ mods etc etc, it was ok perhaps one day I might it just didn't live up to its hype.
For people to suggest your against them because you cannot afford it? Really?
Somebody once suggested its not the systemas that put people off, it's the owners. A few chaps I know have them and they are good fellows, it would appear on prima facia that there are some systema snobs about. Well fair play.

[mightyjebus]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

well i've heard this argument over an over and for me and what i have seen over the years it does boil down to a bit of envy.

i'm also curious as you said you researched the TM EBB's. well here's a thing the build quality of the EBB's is pretty poor. the upper and lower receiver are really thin alumi and they have a tendence to snap. getting a replacement upper or lower can take up to 6 months and will set you back around 100 quid for either part. true they have good TM internals but as anyone knows as soon as you take one apart and stick in a slightly bigger spring the famous TM quality goes right out the window and let's not forget that the gears are made of pretty low quality metal which some believe is to stop the Japanese airsofters taking them over the 1J limit.
now all of this is backed up by owning, breaking, trying to fix and generally getting pee'd off with the newer generation of TM EBB's.
If you want the same blowback function as the TM EBB's you would be better off going and buying the ARMY clone which is available for just less than 100 quid if you shop around. it fires around 330 FPS, has metal gears and if you knacker it you can buy at least 2 more before you reach the price of a TM EBB. If you don't fancy a M4 style EBB then buy the CYMA 046 AK 47 with EBB. good build quality, uses standard AK mags and fires around 330 out the box and for a third of the price of an TM EBB AK.

All the systema's I've built haven't had any of Tac's mods simply because they don't really need them. If you want to moistureproof the electrics go to maplins and buy some PCB varnish for 3 quid and do it yourself. If you want to mod the hop then do a google search for the answer. The only benefit of spending extra on a PTW is if you have one of the older motors which Tac rewinds very well. If you buy a newer PTW there's little chance the motor will need rewinding.

going back to the original OP get a PTW and if you decide you don't like it flog it and buy a few AEG's with the cash you get as PTW reseller value is about 90% of what you paid for it.

[Caveira]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

PTW reseller value is about 90% of what you paid for it.

That, to me, is the one big advantage of a PTW.

[magslap]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

i think theyre all too bloody expensive

[seansamurai1]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

1) Do not get a celcius unless u like guns that are broken more than they are working. They're kinda like the alfa Romeo of guns- when they're working they're great, but that just isn't very often
2) you will lose the user experience going from a TM recoil to anything other than GBB
3) if you play CQB on single shot mostly, you won't benefit from the accuracy or the rate of fire on a systema, so you'd be wasting a lot of money. The trigger response is amazing, but it's also pretty good on TM recoil guns, and u could add a MOSFET a lot cheaper than buying a systema
4) as u mentioned a systema doesn't stop at £1200- you're looking at around £40 a mag, of which you'll need at least 6. Water proofing and maybe hop mod, motor rewind mod on older ones, lipos, servicing

From you've said, stick with TM recoil guns

The version 3 Celcius is very good, the only issues Ive had with mine have been caused by me, the fact the accuracy went down when a Systema hop got fitted, which is bizarre tbh.

The fact you dont need the water proofing, unless you wanna do some navy seal style entrances. The mags I agree with actually, however, cheep soft ones are now available and are pretty good, if not better than the originals.
The hop mod is only if you want to run higher than .25 BBs, also you can buy DIY kits that have everything included for less than 8 quid.
LiPo batteries arent expensive, and the chargers for example the B6 does all batteries so is a handy item.
I will agree though, they arent worth the money, at 1200 quid, you want it to be perfect.

But for the fun factor? Id defo say TM recoil guns all the way.

Although I still have more fun with my A&K LR300.

[ThePope]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

Right before anyone talks crap about the PTW price again this is the exact Email quote.

"Okay, first the bad news.

Production and availability have ceased until March. This is due to the updated model being released.

It also means that they will be subject to Systema's price increase.

All factory assembled (traded) MAX 's will be approx £1450


MAX models come with the silver tube.


So your request will be:

CQB-R MAX II (all mods done) £1450
Basic Li-Poly Conversion £60
Box of 6 Systema HW M16 Mags £240
2x Firefox 11.1v 1200mah 20C Battery (£20 each) £40

Total £1790

Additional if required:

Magpul ASAP Sling Adaptor (RS) £25"

So seriously stop saying a PTW off he who shan't be named is going to cost £1300 as it really bloody isn't any more as without any of the conversions a basic ptw off him with no batts and the 1 mag is going to cost £140 and I would love to see people skirmish one with no battery and 1 mag.

Would also like to point out that the "mods" are £300 added onto the MAX2 price as you can pick up a CQBR-MAX2 for £1150 elsewhere.

[seansamurai1]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

I dont understand the rant, to me 1750 quid is mighty expensive, its a good packedge, but silly expensive.
Id also say the prices Ive seen mentioned on here is around 1200 with the gun. 1150 for an unmodded with postage is pretty close to 1200, or 1750 which is even more expensive.

[Abbadon101]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

Right, I will admit I haven't read the entire thread but I know the jist of what is banding around so I will simply put my experiences with all 3 systems (AEG, EBB and PTW) as I have owned all 3 and used them quite extensivly.

AEG - I have had some amazing AEG's and some shocking ones. And brand hasn't been a part of that, the best 2 AEG's I have ever had were a home built JG/CA M16A2 and a shop built TM AK with guarder and LCT externals. I have had CA, G&P, G&G, JG, TM, ICS.... and probably more I can't remeber. Very few stood out as "The brand to have".

EBB (TM recoil M4's) - I owned 2 of these and they were both pretty damn good. Reliable out of the box and I didn't have any isues. They offer a lot of cool features (recoil, bolt stop very good hop units) but all in all they were just better AEG's. They had a bit better range and trigger response but for the price you would expect it.

PTW (sytema only) - Performance wise by far the best. The hop is much more reliable than any other gun I have ever used and once its set right you can get really quite amazing range out of them. However you do NOT need Tac's mods to make a PTW useable. They work fine out of the box regardless of the rumours (there were some dodgy motors back in 2008/9 but that is a problem of the past). I have 1 Tac modded PTW (full works) and 1 unmodded PTW (has lipo conversion and thats it) and in all honesty you can't tell the difference.

[dannyeprice23]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

an argument that neither side is going to win...

as far as i can see it,

if you can afford a Lamborghini, then get one, if you want the performance of a lambo, you can get an Ariel atom that is just as fast, and doesnt cost anywhere near as much.....but if the money is there......its always going to be the Lambo .


some might not understand that.....but i do...thats all this cat cares about!

[Rainbow6]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

Thanks all for your input and help, I think that for the moment I will keep the EBB's as the recoil and noise does put a smile on my face every time I fire and its nice to have a choice (even though its just between the 2 of them). I might very well get a Systema in the future or a Celcius (V3) if I just decide to sell just my Recce but that's for the future.

[B.E.N.]

Re: TM Recoil Versus PTW

Arent the gears gash though?

I'll give you that, they are not the best, although they ARE easily swapped... The gearbox is EASY to work on.

...and with TAC the only person in the...well world who seems to fix em...all hes short of is wearing a balaclava...

Erm, he isn't... There's an official Systema dealer in the UK that is just as experienced, if not moreso than Tack.

this is an old argument as the PTW owners will say that PTW's are best and the people who can't afford them will slate them. instead of looking at a PTW or a EBB have a look at the new Ares Beryl. It's going to come with a completely new style of gearbox which uses a new system called the non contact fire control system. this will cycle the gearbox completely every shot and works from 6v up to 15v. there is no selector plate, small springs etc so less to break.

Interesting... I've got one here but I'm yet to crack it open....