Is this legal

[madwelshman]

Re: Is this legal

Way I see it, it goes against my interpretation of the vcr bill, (not that that really matters!) and ukara's defence against the vcr bill, I clearly understand ukara isnt the only defence against the bill, but xsite still shows as a registered Ukara member...

Way I see this heading? if Ukara agree this is in breach of their rules we all abide by to legally own Rifs, then they would have to act accordingly....

outcome? xsite either gets clarification from the home office, VCR bill is re written and clearly addresses this issue, they have to two tone guns like every other retailer in the UK...

[madwelshman]

Re: Is this legal

Even though i'am sure Tim has said he has already contacted the HO and they have given him the all clear.

If that were so, why does every other shop two tone? Why has Ukara not changed their stance? Why why why Delilah?

[JordanH]

Re: Is this legal

If that were so, why does every other shop two tone? Why has Ukara not changed their stance? Why why why Delilah?

Ask them...

[madwelshman]

Re: Is this legal

I dont need to, I have a defence to the vcr bill

I'll let Ukara decide

[Sam-Beta]

Re: Is this legal

Either way this ends we'll all end up getting clarification. I'm perfectly willing to eat humble pie and shut up on the subject if written clarification from the relevant regulators is provided. I've already post my own opinion on the subject and I'm not going to continue to go around in circles. As we all well know the only way we can protect our sport is by policing it ourselves and making sure we don't lose it because of silly decisions.

Anyway I've said my piece. I'll not post any further in this thread as it's just adding to the spins of the roundabout that is this subject.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Is this legal

Way I see this heading? if Ukara agree this is in breach of their rules we all abide by to legally own Rifs, then they would have to act accordingly.

UKARA has no legal power to do anything WRT the VCRA and UKSI.

outcome? xsite either gets clarification from the home office, VCR bill is re written and clearly addresses this issue, they have to two tone guns like every other retailer in the UK...

You DO NOT want the government rewriting the VCRA. The likely thing that would happen is ALL the "loopholes" will be filled and we could very well end up WORSE off!

[madwelshman]

Re: Is this legal

your right, I dont, i'm not chasing the home office for clarification so I dont have to two tone guns for kids either!!!

Also right about Ukara, no legal power ect, but they can remove xsite from their listing, and his access to the database, and ask him to remove their banner from his site if he's not following their guidelines.

[magslap]

Re: Is this legal

UKARA has no legal power to do anything WRT the VCRA and UKSI.
You DO NOT want the government rewriting the VCRA. The likely thing that would happen is ALL the "loopholes" will be filled and we could very well end up WORSE off!

so why risk it?
youve already admitted that the government dont want minors supplied with guns.......i just cant understand how you can defend it one minute then contradict the next

[Fizzy]

Re: Is this legal

How are we suppose to keep the sport alive then ? I know if i had to wait until i was 18 to even buy/be gifted a IF then i wouldn't play airsoft as hiring at every game is just too expensive.

By targeting the people with the most disposable income that would be interested in airsofting, so basically people aged 18-25

[JordanH]

Re: Is this legal

By targeting the people with the most disposable income that would be interested in airsofting, so basically people aged 18-25

Fair enough

[Caveira]

Re: Is this legal

Even though i'am sure Tim has said he has already contacted the HO and they have given him the all clear.

Have you had access to the meeting minutes? No?

I've seen some of them (but not all) and it's pretty clear that the home office were in two minds over this when it was brought up. Re-read Tim's posts and you'll see this, plus his acknowledgement that all he had was a verbal OK at the first meeting this was discussed.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: Is this legal

Also right about Ukara, no legal power ect, but they can remove xsite from their listing, and his access to the database, and ask him to remove their banner from his site if he's not following their guidelines.

They could.
But as many people will point out, UKARA regstration is just one proof of a players status, and they could just a seasily contact the sites. Then there's the fact they're founding members...

so why risk it?
youve already admitted that the government dont want minors supplied with guns.......i just cant understand how you can defend it one minute then contradict the next

No. They don't want them SOLD to minors, or there'd be age-specific langauge in the VCRA and firearms act like there is for SUPPLYING air weapons and real firearms.

[madwelshman]

Re: Is this legal

Founding members... does that give them the right to bend the law? no...

Near every shop in the country was established before the vcr bill came about... since this time, all have two toned rifs for under 18's or those over 18 without defence, untill now...

I know Tim has put a lot of time and money into fighting "our" collective corner, but it does not give him the right to change the way he retails uncontested... right or wrong.

[magslap]

Re: Is this legal

No. They don't want them SOLD to minors, or there'd be age-specific langauge in the VCRA and firearms act like there is for SUPPLYING air weapons and real firearms.

so they dont want them sold to minors,but you defend someone who may (may not) be exploiting a loophole which could (possibly) be risking the laws we have that protect us to be able to sell them to somone the government has clearly marked they dont want them selling too?
is this correct.

i understand that if dad is a skirmisher and little johnny wants to get involved then ...sure,little johnny is going to end up with one of dads guns to go skirmishing with,that is completley understandable...............but to specifically look for a way to get little geffrey a gun becuase his dad doesnt skirmish and little geffrey cant get on ukara coz hes too young is wrong. dad is not a skirmisher,dad may be old enough,but doesnt hold a ukara ( or other specific defence)......geffrey is a member but cannot be on the defence as hes too young........2 wrongs dont make a right.

the future of airsoft doesnt look to the kids,it looks to the peoples actions that are involved right now.

[jediknight129]

Re: Is this legal

argueably the act is so filled with loopholes that its laughably easy to work around, bear in mind also that the 3 skirmishes rule is only an interpretation, so much of what you all see as the LAW!!! is interpretation.

the act itself does frack all anyway its a kneejerk feel good law to gain votes off the suburban middle class nimby twerps, just like the handgun ban and the foxhunting, just another way for labour to attack rurals for city votes, same as the change in the law for air rifle storage,

and it wont die because the government doesn't give back things it has taken from its serfs, the only thing that is 100% safe are moscarts as they are protected in the firearms act, 99% of everything else can be taken or banned as they desire. just wait till the gov needs votes or to hide a scandal and we will lose even more of our toys in the antigun hysteria.