2-tone services being withdrawn?

[The Keeper of Secrets]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Thankyou!! finally someone who has seen the bigger picture and i cant believe the things some people have written. Obviously 2-tone isnt ideal and yes it looks ugly and can ruin the realism of Airsofting but its what people are going to have to adapt to, it's like what Dom said the younger players are the future of airsoft and without them playing then the sport will just die out.....


Ollie.

Right.

Neither of you have done any research or realise the bigger picture and it's annoying a lot of us.

We got our defence to the VCRA becuase we told the government we needed realistic guns for our sport to function, so we were given the ability to purchase RIFs.

If a government official with an axe to grind sees people running around airsofting with two-tones, they may say "well, they work actually, so you can all use them", and then ban RIFs.

That is why two-tones threaten our sport.

Understand?

[Aeviv]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Nah. People in their early to mid 20's with jobs and disposable income are the future of airsoft.

I agree. Whilst its great to see the young guns on the field, and since many of my comerades are young guns, I have no problem with them. However, the fact is that most new airsoft converts are guys who have a bit of spare dosh, spare time, and a bit of a gun problem.
When I started as a young gun (15 may I add), I had to save for over a year to buy my first gun, which was a clone. Compare that to a friend of mine who got his UKARA in the minimum time, then went out and bought an CA G36.
Plus, even though I was renting, I knew most of the regs, and as such, didnt feel out of place. Yes, it cost me a fair bit, but since at that age my parents wouldnt support the hobby, so they wouldnt have bought me a two tone either (this was before the act, im stating hypothetically). So when I did get some 'newbie' stigma, I simply proved them wrong by sneaking up on the f**kers and putting two rounds in their backs.
In fact, the law was still back then that you had to be over 18, so the young gun situation hasnt really changed, except if you have generous parents. I eventually convinced my dad when I found out about him having an air rifle when he was growing up in the 60s

[Hypnose]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

To be honest if you cant afford to rent a gun to get UKARA maby airsoft isnt the sport for you?

[No1_sonuk]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

The VCRA, Section 37, subsection 3 states:

(3) It shall also be a defence for a person charged with an offence under section 36
in respect of conduct falling within subsection (1)(d) of that section to show
that the conduct—
(a) was in the course of carrying on any trade or business; and
(b) was for the purpose of making the imitation firearm in question
available to be modified in a way which would result in its ceasing to
be a realistic imitation firearm.

My interpretation is that subsection 3(b) (in bold above) makes it specifically LEGAL to import a RIF ( Section 36(1)(d) is the RIF import prohibition) and make it into a 2-tone (the "to be modified" part).

WRT "exemptions":
Reenactors have a specifically stated defence in the VCRA, Airsoft DOESN'T. Airsoft's defence has been granted under the provisions in the VCRA which allow the Home Secretary to do so.

[Fizzy]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

I know some under 18's can be very stupid with airsoft guns, however i feel that some of the comments being made about getting rid of younger player etc are a tad harsh.

There are alot of under 18's who enjoy the sport very much with me being one of them.

Boohoo

http://zeroin.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33860


:p

[Aeviv]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Now, Whilst Fizzy has purhaps done this in an... unorthodox... manner, Im please to see that some members of the forum take this matter seriously. We used to have problems with under ages trading on here with two certain snipers and I had liked to think it had disappeared! I would like to think all trades have the sense to check before sales are made!

[Panoptes]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

WRT "exemptions":
Reenactors have a specifically stated defence in the VCRA, Airsoft DOESN'T. Airsoft's defence has been granted under the provisions in the VCRA which allow the Home Secretary to do so.

Which makes our position even more precarious...

[Fizzy]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Now, Whilst Fizzy has purhaps done this in an... unorthodox... manner, Im please to see that some members of the forum take this matter seriously. We used to have problems with under ages trading on here with two certain snipers and I had liked to think it had disappeared! I would like to think all trades have the sense to check before sales are made!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist. I was going to add something about IFs as this thread has gone on to the old debate about harming airsoft, and how we're all elitist snobs picking on under 18's, but I feel I've said all that already on what seems to be a weekly occurrence

[No1_sonuk]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Which makes our position even more precarious...

Exactly, and if it weren't so late, I might have added those very words to my post. :D

[richy b]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Now, Whilst Fizzy has purhaps done this in an... unorthodox... manner, Im please to see that some members of the forum take this matter seriously. We used to have problems with under ages trading on here with two certain snipers and I had liked to think it had disappeared! I would like to think all trades have the sense to check before sales are made!

agreed, and in all seriousness surly its as much the sellers responsibility to sell "legaly" as it is the buyer to be "legal"?

rich.

[The Keeper of Secrets]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

The onus is actually all on the seller.

If the transaction is found, the seller will take the plunge. As the law states "It is illegal to sell a RIF to a minor" (or words to that effect).

[SmokeyWare]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

People under 17 can't drive.. but we don't see go-karts on the roads with 10 year olds in them do we?

What's the problem with having to wait until you're 18 before being able to OWN a RIF? You can still skirmish. And is it REALLY that much more expensive to pay 30 odd quid here and there (I can't imagine that a huge majority of under 18s who would really manage to skirmish like twice a month even if it was free.. lifts from parents not always available etc). So that 30 odd quid isnt really gonna add up to a lot more in 4 or so years for a young gun than a £150 gun, mags, batteries, bbs, walk on fees etc etc. For a 17 year old, it certainly isn't going to be that much cheaper in ONE year for them to just pay rental fees.

That's the only argument I've ever really heard about young guns who aren't content with renting..

Wrong.

At my site, it's once a month, and a £15 rental fee.

Lets say you start playing at the age of 16.
Thats 24 games of airsofting. Okay you might not make them all, so lets say 20 games.

20 games, with the rental fee of £15 = £300.

A decent Two-Tone G36C or equivelent, with mag's batteries and any other accesories is about £200 at the most.

Which means in your first 2 years, you've saved £100 on rentals.

The other thing is. If you started at 16, payed £300 in rental's, got UKARA on your 18th birthday. You'd have to find ANOTHER £200+ To fund a gun, all just because it wasn't bright green.

Now what looks better? £200, at the start a nice green gun. Or £500, UKARA and a RIF.

I know what i'd rather choose. Don't take this is a personal attack though.

[No1_sonuk]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

It is the seller that commits the offence, not the buyer. And contrary to popular belief, UKARA registration is NOT a legal requirement to buy a RIF. UKARA registration is the industry's own means of determining if the buyer is a genuine skirmisher and site member (which, as I understand it, IS the Home Office requirement for the defence.)

EDIT:
@Smokeyware:
Your logic is slightly off. Under 18s are not allowed to buy IFs (2-tones) either...

[Ghost MacRoth]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Now what looks better? £200, at the start a nice green gun. Or £500, UKARA and a RIF.

Option 2. £500, Ukara and a RIF.

[spetsnazdave87]

Re: 2-tone services being withdrawn?

Can we just make the 'generic zeroin VCRA argument thread' a sticky?

Every single bloomin' time, we have the same people under 18s popping up and throwing badly informed arguments around while openly flouting the law elsewhere on the same forum, we have the same people in the know lose their temper because whenever they actually try to explain the reality of the situation the argumentative little guys start b*tching, and the whole thread descends into chaos until it gets locked.

Its getting a tad tiring...