Longest Comfirmed Range?

[PureSilver]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

EVERY airsoft gun used the same principle. It's essentially an electric compressor hooked up to a pipw that has some way of dropping BBs into it. [...] This is the most fundamentally depressing thing about airsoft I guess...

That's the most depressing thing about airsoft? What about the lack of kosher options for me at the lunch? I consider the fact that all guns are essentially equal in terms of range* to be a challenge - if someone can score a 60m+ hit every time with modified Detonics, good for them! What's the absolute opposite of depressing is the fundamental truth that you don't have to spend the Earth to get excellent range - and that some of the people that have sunk Liberia's national deficit into their gun can't shoot as far as you can with a carefully tuned Hi-Capa.

@ B.E.N. - good answer but, if you can, explain then, why they perform the way they do out of the box? Are RS using better quality components throughout, as opposed to putting any old crap in there? That 'principle' is a different one

I think it would be accurate to say that RealSword do build their guns along different principles - not principles of physics, but principles of business. RealSword's SVDs are well designed, well made, hand-finished, and the entire enterprise is built to a different price point than, say, a CYMA. More than anything, RealSword's quality control is what sets them apart - I'm sure RealSword lemons will start crawling out of the woodwork now I've mentioned it, but I've never heard of one before. When something is well built to a reasonable price, the chances are it will work better than something built badly, quickly and cheaply.


*Range. ONLY range. NOT FIRE VOLUME. If you can make your pistol shoot 60m+, excellent. If you can cram >9,000rds into the box magazine of your 50rps stubby M4, not so excellent.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

So Ben on the basis of the ONE RS that was below par, that's what you base your 'it's impossible for the dragunov to even come close to outranging other guns'? even though it is better built and 100fps more powerful than your standard AEG!

I've used one, seen what it can do out the box, others have agreed. I was impressed, so much to the point I nearly bought one, decided on a TM recoil as I was CQB orientated.


Them my regular site closed down so now I'm doing woodland work again. *facepalm*

[Scotsmark]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Sean, I've only saw 3 for sale on any forum this year. I bought mine in August and it's with a mate just now as I'm going back offshore and have been unable to play due to laser eye surgery. He's been using it and loves it!

[happyal]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Not all airsoft gun do use the same method of applying spin to the BB. The BV system used in the Asahi M60 uses a Long Range Barrel, in this system the whole barrel moves backwards as the bb is sent forward, giving you huge amounts of hop.

In all seriousness My Asahi M60, firing at 350fps and full auto does out-range all snipers at my local site. I’m not saying it’ll outrange all snipers, but what I am saying is that Classic’s are awesome.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Trust me bud, I kicked myself so hard, I love the sopmod but the dragunov is sexy as hell and the one I used and the others I've seen or heard about were pretty stunning.
SR25 build up again I think until January when I get my resettlement payment. Might go the whole hog and buy a real steel scope for it as well.

[iNK]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

why does everyone on here get on their high horse about threads like this? the Op started a thread which states this has been confirmed by a range finder, so hes not giving it the big beans is he?

That's because a lot of people on this forum are intellectuals and really would be better off in an intellectual place such as San Francisco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U

I had a play with one of those Marui Mac 11's at a popular Peterborough airsoft retailer and was gobsmacked at how far it was lobbing them out and how straight the trajectory was. They only fire about 230fps with a 0.20, speaks volumes for the hops they use.

[Scotsmark]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Trust me bud, I kicked myself so hard, I love the sopmod but the dragunov is sexy as hell and the one I used and the others I've seen or heard about were pretty stunning.
SR25 build up again I think until January when I get my resettlement payment. Might go the whole hog and buy a real steel scope for it as well.

I have a G&P SR25, the Magpul PTS Sniper version. New hop on it kicks the beeb out a fair way too but can't touch the SVD. I'm waiting on the RS M4 line to come out and have been in a bit of dialogue with them. I'd wait for that one!

[seansamurai1]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Meh, got enough armorlite variants to last a lifetime tbh.
Been having a hankering lately to get back into a recon role, little bit of range and a wookie suit.

[B.E.N.]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

So Ben on the basis of the ONE RS that was below par, that's what you base your 'it's impossible for the dragunov to even come close to outranging other guns'? even though it is better built and 100fps more powerful than your standard AEG!

I've used one, seen what it can do out the box, others have agreed. I was impressed, so much to the point I nearly bought one, decided on a TM recoil as I was CQB orientated.


Them my regular site closed down so now I'm doing woodland work again. *facepalm*

I'm not saying it was below par, it just had all the same foibles that other AEGs have, because it is just another AEG, so it was precisely ON par. I don't believe it will outrange any other gun firing at the same velocity with a half decent hop rubber either.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

So what you are saying then Ben is that a gun straight out of the box can't possibly perform the same or outperform something that's been slightly upgraded?
The fact that out performs AEGs anyway as its a high FPS semiauto that's been designed and built from the ground up to perform as such.
Whilst it doesn't defy the laws of physics, it performs exceedingly well.
I'd like to see an out the box AEG shoot matchsticks!
Check out you tube Ben. Or better still, why don't you use your publication to review one?
You might surprised to know that internally they are pretty different to a normal AEG, yes they have a piston, a motor and a gearbox, the difference is it uses 4 gears instead of 3, it also uses a slightly tweaked and tightened up version of TMs venerable AK hop, which is pretty much the best design going along with the TM M14.

[B.E.N.]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

So what you are saying then Ben is that a gun straight out of the box can't possibly perform the same or outperform something that's been slightly upgraded?
The fact that out performs AEGs anyway as its a high FPS semiauto that's been designed and built from the ground up to perform as such.
Whilst it doesn't defy the laws of physics, it performs exceedingly well.
I'd like to see an out the box AEG shoot matchsticks!
Check out you tube Ben. Or better still, why don't you use your publication to review one?
You might surprised to know that internally they are pretty different to a normal AEG, yes they have a piston, a motor and a gearbox, the difference is it uses 4 gears instead of 3, it also uses a slightly tweaked and tightened up version of TMs venerable AK hop, which is pretty much the best design going along with the TM M14.

I'm saying that yes, it'll probably shoot about the same as any other decent AEG but just because it's made nicely doesn't mean that it isn't going to be susceptible to the same inherent issues as any other AEG. Perhaps it does have an advantage, long barrel, easy to generate a higher velocity without massive springs but in terms of range, it can still only sling a bb as far as the velocity it is firing at allows it.

500fps from gun a is exactly the same as 500fps from gun b.

Personally, I do have a tendency to lean towards bolt actions being more consistent than AEGs in particular, thanks to the fact that all of the components get to "bed down" into the firing positions before the trigger is pulled...

[Caveira]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

500fps from gun a is exactly the same as 500fps from gun b.

Not true - not by a long way.

Gun a may have a better hop than gun b. In that case, gun a will outperform gun b every day of the week.

Even if gun a and gun b have exactly the same hop, if gun a has a more consistent airseal and mechanically efficient 'box, that will allow far more precise adjustment of the hop. Matching the hop to the precise fps and BB weight are the keys to good range. You've effectively said that you prefer bolties for this very same reason. Bolties are great at providing consistent fps; so are custom built electric DMRs. The RS is basically a factory optimised DMR.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Well until you have tried one you can't really comment.

I will agree with the bolt actions being more stable and consistent though and a 500fps bolty does certainly out perform most if not all AEG based guns. I've seen the range out of the RS with my own eyes, when guys are engaging with AEGs and not even coming close, even trying the 'indirect mortar' approach and still failing to come close.
It just seems that you are completely correct, everyone with experience of the platform is completely wrong, tbh Ben, that is just arrogance, the fact you aren't even putting in the effort to confirm what people have said and experienced.
I'm not going to say the RS dragunov is 'am bestest gun everz', what I and a handful of others have said is its bloody good and does a very good job of out ranging AEGs and doing what it was designed to do. This is also combined with the correct ammo as well.

[Sam-Beta]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

My max range has been measured out at 65m shooting at 334fps (at least on .2s it clocks in at). 65m with .3s. This is without wind though.

Upgrades are:

Madbull Python II tightbore
Madbull 3-1 Hop
Madbull Blue Rubber
G&P 8mm Gear box
G&P M120 Gear box


The gun just seems to LOVE .3s.

Edit: The range is all dependant on weather with my gat though, I had one game indoors where I was hitting the 65m mark without much issue (3-8 shots were hitting) outdoors with wind and rain I'm lucky to hit 50.

[B.E.N.]

Re: Longest Comfirmed Range?

Well until you have tried one you can't really comment.

I will agree with the bolt actions being more stable and consistent though and a 500fps bolty does certainly out perform most if not all AEG based guns. I've seen the range out of the RS with my own eyes, when guys are engaging with AEGs and not even coming close, even trying the 'indirect mortar' approach and still failing to come close.
It just seems that you are completely correct, everyone with experience of the platform is completely wrong, tbh Ben, that is just arrogance, the fact you aren't even putting in the effort to confirm what people have said and experienced.
I'm not going to say the RS dragunov is 'am bestest gun everz', what I and a handful of others have said is its bloody good and does a very good job of out ranging AEGs and doing what it was designed to do. This is also combined with the correct ammo as well.

Woah woah, let's get this straight...

I'M being arrogant because I'm not agreeing with you and one other person that a RS SVD is better than everything else? Yeah, it might be all good out of the box but I'm not convinced it does anything that isn't within the boundaries of any other AEG because it's the same. It has loading nozzles, hop levers and a bucking and a nub.

What I'm saying is the it MIGHT well be a good gun, although nothing about its design gives it any advantage over any other AEG in the range department. I don't know if the point has gotten lost along the way, but my point is, the limits of what you can get out of an AEG as we know it have been found and probably were a long time ago. Regardless of how many gears are in the gearbox, how polished the cylinder is and how many virgin elves hand rolled the hop bucking, all that we can strive for currently is Consistency, longevity and trigger response in use. Apart from their motors, systema seemed to do a pretty good job of this. RS seem to have done a decent job in producing an "industrial" quality AEG. They all still have a hop that can only impart a balanced amount of backspin on a bb of a given weight at a restricted velocity therefor the range available has an upper limit.

In the us this conversation is a lot more interesting because the variable of velocity seems to be fair game again. Higher velocities, heavier weight BBs and different rubber compounds for hops come into play again.

Im not being arrogant and assuming this knowledge. I've spoken to people that have built spring powered airsoft guns capable of over 800fps, hell, a large manufacturer actually build a gas system that theoretically could fire a bb at thousands of feet per second.

EDIT:

If a gun is capable of consistently overhopping a BB, it's fair to say that at some point in the range of adjustment of that hop unit, there is a sweet spot for any given weight of BB at any given velocity. The sweet spot is the point at which the rotation applied to the BB is sufficient that it is still spinning fast enough when the forward momentum of the BB has reduced to a point that the aerodynamic effect can start to counter the effect of gravity. Too much spin and the BB overhops meaning the forward momentum of the BB is overpowered by the aerodynamic effect of the backspin. Too little and the BB will succumb to gravity. You only get one chance to apply backspin and you can only set a specific amount.

At UK velocities, I believe that studies show that a .29g offers the best ratio to velocity/hop effect meaning you'll generally get greater range.

A heavy BB will always travel slower, although applying more hop will flatten out it's trajectory as above. More hop also means that the BB will be more obstructed as it leaves the barrel though, further reducing the potential range or just jamming up the gun. PERHAPS different compounds of rubber will allow for more "grip" on the BB and less resistance. If you look at how a hop works, it's kinda akin to squeezing a pool ball against the table, backspinning it. If you somehow could apply a roller to the BB that just gently "kissed it" as it passed yo might get less velocity reduction but more spin... I'm not sure. I can't figure out whether the amount of spin require automatically reduces the velocity because of the friction required, but theretically if you could apply the spin on the right axis, it might work better... But I'm just rambling.

The way i see it, current, common hop designs and the compounds of decent rubbers are more than sufficient to apply the spin required on even the heaviest used BBs at the velocities we use. Maybe the next step is some kind of gyroscopic hyper-BBs that can impart a gradually increasing amount of spin as they fly...