BFG Ban ?

[felix_jaegar]

Re: BFG Ban ?

Okay firstly let me advise you of our standpoint at this moment in time.

I am the Director of F&O Midlands and this is our stand point.

We are currently trying very hard and chasing people daily to get a satisfactory result in the issue of the temporary ban on blank firing grenades.

We were hopeful of resolving this up till Friday last week, hence the delay in information getting to Lee who runs the Southern F&O sites.

This issue has come to light due to a couple or reasons.

1. Player issue at Cerberous Airsoft
2. Failure to supply insurance data sheets after a trade enquiry.

It appears that whilst I and the rest of the airsofting comunity have been using BFGs for nearly 10 years, it appears that they are not on any airsoft companies insurance. So due to this they would not be covered in any sort of claim.

We are working with the insurance company to try and resolve this and it appears at the moment that we just need confirmation from the manufacturer that they are suitable for airsoft use.

Also to clear up F&Os previous standpoint on BFGs they are to be rolled across the ground or posted only and no more than a 9mm blank is to be uses. Throwing BFGs gets them removed from said player and player getting sin binned. We also recommend full face protection on all our sites.

[caffin999]

Re: BFG Ban ?

Okay firstly let me advise you of our standpoint at this moment in time.

I am the Director of F&O Midlands and this is our stand point.

We are currently trying very hard and chasing people daily to get a satisfactory result in the issue of the temporary ban on blank firing grenades.

We were hopeful of resolving this up till Friday last week, hence the delay in information getting to Lee who runs the Southern F&O sites.

This issue has come to light due to a couple or reasons.

1. Player issue at Cerberous Airsoft
2. Failure to supply insurance data sheets after a trade enquiry.

It appears that whilst I and the rest of the airsofting comunity have been using BFGs for nearly 10 years, it appears that they are not on any airsoft companies insurance. So due to this they would not be covered in any sort of claim.

We are working with the insurance company to try and resolve this and it appears at the moment that we just need confirmation from the manufacturer that they are suitable for airsoft use.

Also to clear up F&Os previous standpoint on BFGs they are to be rolled across the ground or posted only and no more than a 9mm blank is to be uses. Throwing BFGs gets them removed from said player and player getting sin binned. We also recommend full face protection on all our sites.

Good news. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Paul 8v]

Re: BFG Ban ?

I'd like to see if the people on here that said the guy should "keep it to himself for the good of airsoft" (which seems to be the generic bo//ock$ excuse for this sort of thing) would say the same thing if they had their own noses broken and cheek bones cracked.

Even if it is not the fault of the site, it is still wrong that this has happened to the guy in question and even more wrong that BFGs are not covered under insurance.

F&O have taken the sensible option by the sounds of it and done what any profesional company would do in the situation.

As for the comment about H&S with building sites, it's there because not everyone has common sense and people are killed on building sites from not following correct procedures. The laws have to cater for everyone, not just "Sensible people"
This also applies to airsoft...

[Blue Sun Merc]

Re: BFG Ban ?

Another note, the player injured did not need to "run crying to a solicitor" since any responsible company must keep an Accident Book, and a part of their terms of Insurance would require the Company to notify the Insurer of any serious incident whether or not it leads to a claim. Fractures definitely count as notifiable, as do head injuries. And an Insurance company that has assesed and accepted the risk of people shooting lightweight plastic pellets at each other might not be willing to cover the same people lobbing heavy metal lumps at people's heads.

If some twerp was lobbing the bricks or lead tiles from the buildings at other players, I can't see we'd have any of the defencive posts about "don't be a pussy, you expect to get hurt, lol". Just because it's a grenade that can be used properly and safely doesnt make it suddenly alright to use it in a manner that is far more likely to cause serious injury.

So yeah, one idiot has spoilt it for the moment - but better this way that we get a check on the situation, than some guy who gets blinded by someone "having a laugh" and has a real need to claim for his lost sight and lost earnings getting turned down as the Insurance is voided.

[Counting Count]

Re: BFG Ban ?

I'd like to know more about the incident the OP states

When I asked why, apparently someone threw one a BFG, and not an underarm, it was a proper heft, and it copped a guy in the face breaking his nose and cracking a cheekbone.

or is this a case of Chinese whispers?

[b16jus]

Re: BFG Ban ?

I'd like to know more about the incident the OP states



or is this a case of Chinese whispers?

Exactly, to break a nose i would think even at 5 ft away would be hard pushed to do.

At 20 + ft away i cant see it myself

[Paul 8v]

Re: BFG Ban ?

Exactly, to break a nose i would think even at 5 ft away would be hard pushed to do.

At 20 + ft away i cant see it myself

Really?

The shipping weight of a Dynatech BFG (For arguments sake) according to google is 0.8kgs, Thrown overarm from 5 feet I think is enough to cause some serious damage! From 20ft away I imagine it would be quite a hit to take

[tisane]

It appears that whilst I and the rest of the airsofting comunity have been using BFGs for nearly 10 years, it appears that they are not on any airsoft companies insurance. So due to this they would not be covered in any sort of claim.

We are working with the insurance company to try and resolve this and it appears at the moment that we just need confirmation from the manufacturer that they are suitable for airsoft use.

So any injury whatsoever suffered to a player by a BFG would leave any SITE wide open to a lawsuit as the insurer whould say tough poo, because at the moment they are not on the policy.

Exactly, to break a nose i would think even at 5 ft away would be hard pushed to do.

At 20 + ft away i cant see it myself

You are joking right?
I lobbed a Tornado impact grenade 10ft along a corridor and it dropped down a flight of stairs to where a poor sod was taking cover.
It nearly knocked him out and the lump was the size of a golf ball!!!
I have had a .2 BB break my little finger at point blank.

[caffin999]

Re: BFG Ban ?

Really?

The shipping weight of a Dynatech BFG (For arguments sake) according to google is 0.8kgs, Thrown overarm from 5 feet I think is enough to cause some serious damage! From 20ft away I imagine it would be quite a hit to take

agree with that! it could easily break someones nose if chucked with reasonable power.

[-=256=-Swerve]

Re: BFG Ban ?

it doesn't need reasonable power, just a decent slow lob. laws of physics will do the rest

I've seen one lobbed up onto a wooden bridge at a site in Southern England, just missed my mates head who was a couple of metres in front of me. Hit the wood next to his head, I was in no doubt that if it had hit him it would have been a nasty knock.

The marshall thought hit was funny, kicked the BFG back down the ramp of the bridge for his mate (site regular) to pick up and re arm

We walked off back to the safe zone pretty much soon after, it was the last skirmish round of the day anyway, and we'd had enough of it by then.

[SP3CTER]

Re: BFG Ban ?

So where would the insurance company have come in to play here? Would the player with the broken nose have complained? Is it just me that would try and keep quiet about an injury that could potentially affect airsoft across the nation? I'd be having a word with the site owner (once consciousness had been regained!) and making it clear what happened...

Maybe that's not how it works, I don't know much about the insurance side of it.

I would assume the "victim" wanted some kind of compensation, which resulted in the airsoft site having to notify their insurance company. Just a guess so dont quote me on this.

[Boo-Sabum Ben]

Re: BFG Ban ?

The 'Victim' sees an advert on TV, where a very aggressive lawyer tells him he could be entitled to compensation, even though he didnt lose any money or anything from said incident.

He will then say to the site "I want this much because this happened to me"

And then if the site cant afford it (as it can very easily reach millions of pounds) they will talk to the insurance company, and it will be dealt with through them.

The whole thing is absurd. How the hell do you put a price on getting a bump on the head.

As an instructor, I was simply horrified to hear the latest martial arts case brought up, where someone was trying to claim compensation in one form or another, over a bruise they got from being hit. Thats right, a bruise. The case is for what COULD have happened

[tisane]

How do we know it was a simple bump on the head?
Whats to say the guy isnt scared for life?
Ok you partake in boxing, martial arts, rugby...etc...etc to be beaten sensless on occasion unconcious.
But one person on here tell me they pay there green fee to have lumps of alloy containing blanks lobbed in such a manner that can cause you serious injury??
Any injury from a BB with the exeption of eyes and teeth are covered by PLI, as we have found out a few posts above BFGs may not even be on your sites insurance policy.

That to me is sheer lunacy, as a site owner an injury caused by one WILL loose you your site, because your insurers will tell you to take a running jump and you the site owner will have to foot the 10s of thousands in compo and expenses.

I was a bit miffed a while ago as to why GZ dont allow Propane on there sites, but if there insurers say no then no it is, because if for whatever reason a propane tank explodes and kills GZs owner at best would have to foot a large compo bill and at worst could face prison time.
But if a green can explodes there insurance will cover it as its on the policy.

[M4 killa]

Re: BFG Ban ?

There are two sides to this emerging:
the legal shizzle
And the sh1t happens

Regarding the legal part It is down to the site to assure during the safety brief that they Say loud and clear "BFG's are to be rolled along the floor like a bowling ball not thrown like a dodge ball. That is all the site can do if some one then disobays that instruction well that is then up to the site to take action in a way deemed fit regarding the situation.

If the incident happened whilst the person was prone (lying down) then possibly a, don't lie down in an extremly hostile urban environment would be more suitable adition to the rules instead of no more BFG's.

That may sound very unsympathetic but it is not inteneded to be i have full sympathy for the victim, But PERSONALY if that happened to me i wouldn't go hunting through my rule books looking up on how to wreck CQB airsoft for everyone by banning BFG's i would just hope the person that did it would apolagise very well and would expect a letter from them saying there truly sorry, and aslong as it wasn't intentional would forgive and forget.

[Four Leaf]

Ok, so someone throws a BFG and cops someone in the face breaking their nose, even though in the safety brief it is made clear that BFGs are to be rolled along the floor or posted.

So if this happened to you, you would be happy with an apology and written letter saying they are sorry.

So if someone decided to change the spring in their AEG to shoot 500 FPS and then shot you in CQB, breaking a few teeth, possibly embedding BB's in your cheek and lips, scarring you for life, would you except a letter of apology from that person ?

People may not always agree with the rules, but they are still the rules and either follow them all or follow none of them.

It's dangerous to throw BFGs around at head height just like it's dangerous to shoot over 350 FPS with an AEG in CQB. Some how I don't think people would be as forgiving to the person that was shooting a hot gun, even though He might not meant to have shred your face, he still did because he ignored the rules and jeopardised every players safety.