Very high rps... What's the point?

[Skolob]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

On top of yhat tamiya plugs have poor surface contact areas given they oxidise and and don't actually mate up that brilliantly and hence have quite a bit of resistance for a plug. Deans and xt60s have gold plated connectors for better conductivity, have much later suface areas to mate up and are much better machined so have more consistent surface areas.

Really these days, deans are becomming the uograde standard, although imho xt60s are cheaper and a bit better ( iirc they are rated to 60 amps).

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

What`s your set up ? as 45rps on an 11.1v for a dsg sounds a bit slow but I guess if you have a really slow motor in there at the moment it would be quite slow.

I think you are right about my motor, I’m still waiting for quite a few parts to come, but at the moment this is my setup

Prowin 8mm Gearbox
Prowin air nozzle
Modify cylinder
Modify cylinder head
RiotSG DSG-Balanced 20:1 ratio
Modify Bearing spring guide
Element Piston (not lightened yet)
Element piston head
CA Switch
Infected airsoft mosfet
TM EG1000 motor
140 Spring
Piston spacers to bring fps back up to a reasonable level

What I am planning:

SHS ultra high torque motor
Raptor mosfet
150 spring
SHS piston, and lighten it
SHS piston head
Speed adjustable trigger

For skirmish use I will be using a 7.4 3300 25C Lipo. I would expect approx 40rps from my setup at 320fps.

Is there anything that you can suggest? Or anything that you think is wrong or needs replacing?

[jonny lovegrove]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Ah i remember me thinking my 23rps was fast, on one of the full metal JG boxes (v3) and a g&pm120, with an m90 spring... (tamiya and 9.6 NimH)

[ThePope]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I have done range time in front of my Minigun, first at 30m, then at 15m, simply so I knew how it felt to be shot by it, now I know how careful I have to be with it. Anything sub 20m is only going to get shot by a strafing shot, otherwise it'll hurt like hell.

My arse can now testify to that.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I think you are right about my motor, I’m still waiting for quite a few parts to come, but at the moment this is my setup

Prowin 8mm Gearbox
Prowin air nozzle
Modify cylinder
Modify cylinder head
RiotSG DSG-Balanced 20:1 ratio
Modify Bearing spring guide
Element Piston (not lightened yet)
Element piston head
CA Switch
Infected airsoft mosfet
TM EG1000 motor
140 Spring
Piston spacers to bring fps back up to a reasonable level

What I am planning:

SHS ultra high torque motor
Raptor mosfet
150 spring
SHS piston, and lighten it
SHS piston head
Speed adjustable trigger

For skirmish use I will be using a 7.4 3300 25C Lipo. I would expect approx 40rps from my setup at 320fps.

Is there anything that you can suggest? Or anything that you think is wrong or needs replacing?

Your using the 20:1 gears so I`d expect around 38 to 40rps on a 7.4v battery

Just use a deans or xt60 as people have said. Personally I sometimes use bullet connectors or even connector blocks (the type with screws) if they can hold a constant 20amps at 240v then I dont see why my little airsoft gun should bother them lol

You`ll want to remove all unused teeth on your pistol and yeah cheese it up if you have the time, also sorbo pad the impact point of the piston on the piston head other wise you may find the front breaks off your gearbox. Its also very handy to save things getting damaged if you end up dry firing for any reason.

It go`s without saying to make sure you have a good airseal and your cylinder volume is a good match for your barrel length as I have stated you`ll want it to be under 360mm.

A hard hop up is needed for a dsg set up or any high rof set up as softer hop`s just get destroyed really quickly.

Do the best shim job you possibly can and check it with the gearbox fully tightened

use good grease but keep grease on the piston guides to a minimal amount.

Use the best wire you can get into the gearbox and solder everything well

Motor wise if the shs UT motor is new you may want to "run it in" for it to work better from the get go.

I have found the brushes in shs motors to be pretty good but you can get a bit more vroom out of a shs UT by getting some really stiff RC motor brush springs and fitting them to them it will mean you kill your motor brushes a bit faster but if you know what size they are then replacements are really cheap it should still take years to kill a set.

If the motor plugs are not going to be soldered then just make sure there on nice a tight.

as your at 8mm I`d go with bearings as they should be able to take the strain if there decently made.

As for the Raptor I don`t have much experience with them but on a dsg you just want a very simple non braking mosfet

You may also find a decent micro switch in place of your trigger contacts gets everything moving a bit faster.

Nothing else that springs to mind right now a 7.4v 3300 25c lipo sounds like a good power source for it

I`m cracking around 44rps (maybe 46) now on a set up no too different from yours but its currently a 7mm ka box running modify 16:1`s on a mosfet that midas built and a 7.4v 2600 20c battery as it has to go in a crane stock.

I have a 9mm gearbox and a set of the fastest riot dsg`s for the next build to that should be fun, you know now I think about it I may as well get a micro switch put into that build.

I`d say you should be able to brake 38rps I`d hope for 42`ish if you get it all spot on and keep the resistance low.

You may want to join the 2 motor wires together and test for resistance do with a multi meter and just see what brings it down, then test a stock gearbox`s resistance with a mini tammy plug on it after just to see the massive difference lol

Sorry for the huge ass slightly off topic reply people but he did ask.

Also what`s the point of very high rps ? well it drains your bank balance faster and is that not what airsoft is all about ? lol

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Great post there, lots of info for us all.

A few questions.

I got some sorbo pad, and it caused me to have a large fps drop, is that normal, or have I installed it wrong?

I plan on using a IR Hop of this build once I've got it working right, I think it should be hard enough.
Using Deans already, been using thems since my RC days.
For some reason I find the RiotSG gears easy to shim, perhaps I just got lucky on the 2 sets that I have but they are my best shim job.
I like the Raptor because it replaces everything inside the gearbox, also comes with a micro switch. The wiring on the Raptor is quite good, could be better but it's still fairly good.
Do you recommend soldering the motor? I'm in 2 minds about it.

What do you think it'll get on a 11.1 Lipo? Don't plan to use a 11.1v Lipo for games, but will test with it and maybe scare a few users down at my local site with it

Thanks again for the post, it'll help me out when I've got everything ready to be installed.

[dave38x]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Thanks for explaining that guys, re: the dean's connector melting, I discovered that when I soldered one into my m4!

[p wheels]

I have 34rps setup on my cyma mp5, & personally I think that's enough for what I wanted to achieve.

Personally I prefer accuracy & high fps (within site limits)

My setup up consists of; ultimate high speed gearbox, m110 spring
G&P120 motor, 11.1v lipo & a AB MOSFET.

[fallout3021]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

i like to be shot at with all my guns....its like an initiation....and also if i cant take it, i wont dish it out

i agree

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Great post there, lots of info for us all.

A few questions.

I got some sorbo pad, and it caused me to have a large fps drop, is that normal, or have I installed it wrong?

I plan on using a IR Hop of this build once I've got it working right, I think it should be hard enough.
Using Deans already, been using thems since my RC days.
For some reason I find the RiotSG gears easy to shim, perhaps I just got lucky on the 2 sets that I have but they are my best shim job.
I like the Raptor because it replaces everything inside the gearbox, also comes with a micro switch. The wiring on the Raptor is quite good, could be better but it's still fairly good.
Do you recommend soldering the motor? I'm in 2 minds about it.

What do you think it'll get on a 11.1 Lipo? Don't plan to use a 11.1v Lipo for games, but will test with it and maybe scare a few users down at my local site with it

Thanks again for the post, it'll help me out when I've got everything ready to be installed.

Midas used to sell some really nice sorbo kits think his site is still up and toolbox is running things ?

You`ll lose around 30fps max with a sorbo pad if you set everything up right but just check all your airseal parts.

Well I was doing some work on my dsg today as I was using an older ut motor and it had some problems I jammed a Kazen fast type that I had sitting around into it and I`m back to 42`ish rps again (the fast type kazens don`t seam to run any faster then an shs ut motor but they will cost you way more lol)

So if I take a guess at your set up I`m going base my guesses on what some 18:1 ssg builds do and just double it and take a bit off 7.4v you should be cracking around 36 to 38rps and on an 11.1v 48 to 52rps is my guess.

but with the raptor and all the extra work your putting in you might end up coming on par with my current 16:1 dsg build and get 40 to 42rps on a 7.4v that will put you around 55`ish on an 11.1v for when you want to show off.

If your going to use an 11.1v you may want to increase the strength of you tappet plates return spring but a bit maybe use a stronger but shorter spring to stop a risk of dry feeding. Also when you go over 50`ish air seals become an issue as getting the nozzle to move fast enough and seal up in time becomes the "hard" bit.

Yeah riots gears are very very well made the rare ones I`ve heard of breaking were due to them being in the non ideal part of the furnace when being made to be honest I`ve only remember 1 set breaking but you do have idiot yanks on youtube pushing 400 or 500rps and 14.8v bats lol

Good luck with your build I wish that I could get gearboxes with that much spring pressure back together I really struggle with anything compressed that much. It just ends up flying everywhere when I slip lol


"My setup up consists of; ultimate high speed gearbox, m110 spring
G&P120 motor, 11.1v lipo & a AB MOSFET."

How are you finding running an AB fet on a fast set up ? I find they cause motors to over heat a bit and I do find that m120`s normally get a bit toasty on an 11.1v but if your using semi and short burst`s I guess it would not be much of an issue.

Also maybe its time to move this to a dsg thread in the tech section ??

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Midas used to sell some really nice sorbo kits think his site is still up and toolbox is running things ?

You`ll lose around 30fps max with a sorbo pad if you set everything up right but just check all your airseal parts.

Yeap, that's the kit that I have, 30fps sounds about what I'm losing at the moment, but it seems alot. I will have another look at my airseals, and see if there is anything else I can do to improve it.

Looking forward to get it working right, it looks like it'll take alot of playing around but it should be worth it.

[StargateP90]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I allways enjoy posting in these threads.

Personally I have been playing airsoft for the best part of 8 years now since that very first game I've allways had my TM P90. Though normally I use GBBRs with x5 mags or 30rounds or even a pistol.

I never had the intention of super high ROF but it just kind of happend when upgrading and tuning it.

It currently runs 38 RPS - 39 RPS on an 11.1V 30C Li-Po. Which is a lot. Though that said when I do use it I run with x4 TM Lo-Caps & x1 MAG 150rd Mid-Cap.

NEVER EVER High-Caps. Ever, I hate them.

I dont just run around holding the trigger for as long as possibly spraying everything I see. I use it more tactically, on full auto using in a 'burst mode' individually hitting each target even if the are close together in a very controlled way.

The main reason for the high ROF for me is generally fear, you hear it go off and it scares the crap out of people. + it does ensure that people take their hits, 1 or 2 rounds at 330fps maybe you dont feel it or they choose to ignore it (has happend many times) but 6 - 7 rounds hitting you in under a second you will feel it.

Its also extremley usful for cover fire and getting your team across difficult areas. Like I said above a few rounds hitting the wall above is not really going to keep you behind cover (well I dont anyway, I jump up and shoot) however 38 RPS hitting a rear wall, you will generally stay down.

Not to mention on semi-auto (which I use most of the time) I have amazingly good trigger response, easily matches a GBBR.

Though I do have an very high ROF gun I use it properly and never just 'Spray & Prey' and I very much hate those who do.

My 2 cents anyways.


Edit --

Just to add if anyone wants a high ROF set up and play properly feel free to PM me and I shall give you the engineer.

[StargateP90]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Also just to add from the first page -

I use a Desert Eagle as a side arm very practically and do not sit in bushes. Infact in ranges most AEGs.

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I'm going to ask another silly question,

Why do you remove all the unused teeth from the piston?

Aslo can poeple show pictures of their lighten pistons? I haven't lightened my piston yet, and I want some ideas. I'm thinking of doing something like this, I just wanted some more ideas.

[JOE90]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Unused teeth may be referring to pre engagement issues, when you get pre engagement on a fast build, you tend to need to up the power of your spring in order to return the piston quicker to its seated position. In upping the spring rate it obviously ups the fps above our levels so then the need for short stroking the sector gear and piston comes into play in order to drop the fps back down to site limits, so im giessing this is what he means with he teeth removal as it only then pulls back the piston say 3/4 of the way dropping the fps but keeping the strength in the spring in order to return it faster. If he doesnt mean that then im not sure to be honest.