Very high rps... What's the point?

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Yo Joe I was up and typed before you made an edit also when I`m tired I seam to have the ability to type way way more then I need to

SilverEx mate you just said you hate people calling "cheat" but then your trying to set your own rules as to what airsoft is and refuse to play with others that don`t meet that ? I`m hoping that your just reflected some what badly in what you type, I can see your point and since people started using 11.1v and 14.8v lipo`s I have noticed rof`s going up and gun techs getting busy but when I get shot at by anything over 30rps I find it quite amusing as you know you won`t get away with diving from cover to cover like some dam speedball paintballer.

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

the way i see it, each element or style of play has its pros and cons,which means a way to combat them, its up to the individual player to find the weakness in their opponents chosen playing critieria and exploit them, not to moan and call for legislation...which i find equally bad sportsmanship

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

the way i see it, each element or style of play has its pros and cons,which means a way to combat them, its up to the individual player to find the weakness in their opponents chosen playing critieria and exploit them, not to moan and call for legislation...which i find equally bad sportsmanship

Add one to that very well put mate

[SilverEx]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Disagree entirely with that. Something's need to be attended to. Can't just all be doing whatever the hell we like on an Airsoft field, that's just chaos, rules are needed. High ROF (in a game) = bad, simple as that really. That's all I can say. You're not gonna admit to my point you are just going to try catch me on semantics so what's the point? You are just circumventing all the points I make.
Also just because you have high ROF does not mean you will hit somebody any easier. Infact generally not as your FPS is slightly lower. I'll take my 2 or 3 bb's at 350fps over 15 at 320 any day and that includes being on the receiving end of. Less painful, faster and more direct.

Also as a last note, do you honestly think 30 rps is that different to speedball paintball? You will be playing a similar game for it. Mil Sim is not played with 30rps and any that is is making a mockery of itself really.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I`d play mill sim with a 30rd mag and 30rps burst fire or semi easy mate

The point is you can dodge an airsoft bb a lot easier then a bullet and you can dodge a painball a lot easier then an airsoft bb

In real life there are not fps or rps limits so why should airsoft have them ? In real life you come across a mini gun or 10 guys all with box mags you find a way to deal with it or you die simple.

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

why are you using mil sim as an argument against High rof guns?

if i turned up at one of your mil-sims with an airsoft mini gun, would it not be allowed.

if you wanted to restrict people from using a gun that fires more bbs than yours, because you claim they are cheating,where would it end....
30 low caps
everyone using .20
no tight bore barrels
fps restricted to 330 fps
limited to 15 rps
everyone has to jump on a scale to make sure they weigh the same

i play cqb where the team that has more bfgs has a major advantage, what would you suggest we should do about that...we only play single shot btw

seriously though,if im playing mil-sim then i would adhere to the rules imposed at that site, if im playing at another site that allows full auto, 350fps,hi-caps no ammo restrictions and high rof, i would try to play to the best of my abilities, and use my skills to take out my opponents, if i cant handle the situation i will go elsewhere, its all these varieties of peoples guns,loadouts and playing styles that make airsofting so interesting...trying to add more rules because of something you do not agree on would just suffocate it.

[UnionJack87]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I think this is all getting out of hand lads. What's right for one isn't gonna be right for another, but imposing your hang ups and gripes on others is wrong.

If you've had a bad experience with someone with a high rof gun, I'm sorry, but if uv reported it to site marshals and nothing has been done, maybe you should find a new site to play at.

It's kind of like saying there was once a Cheat at our site with a scar, so all scar users are cheats. Infact let's ban all scars from our site.

I don't have a stupidly high rof gun. My m4 does 32ish bps. But it's faster than a lot of peoples guns at my local site. But I play fairly and have never hosed anyone so I've never had a complaint.

[Icebass]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Sparrow, could not have put that any better myself, but I am going to have a go

Silverex, i honestly don't know why you are using milsim as an argument either, I understand that milsim has rules and you dont see people running about "wasting" rounds firing full auto with guns that fire at 20+ rps, that is because its the more serious side of airsoft where people try their best to make all of their kit as realistic as possible. You see for that I have my mp5k and 6 low caps, full "pmc" style combat gear.

But for general skirmishes that people go to, to actually have fun, thats where i turn up in my jeans, teeshirt and hoodie with my plate carrier. Where I play most of the time its all about a good days crack, going out with friends and playing a game, no matter if its with high or low rate of fire. There are people that play both ends of the scale.

You need to get rid of this mind set that to play airsoft "properly" we all have to play milsim. There are many different types of play at many different types of sites. None of them are the wrong way to play. And, to be honest, i'd rather get riddled with a 40rps gun firing 310-320 fps than take 4 or 6 shots from a gun firing 350-360, I dont know about the rest of you but i've never had blood drawn when i've been shot with a sub 320 fps gun, but anything higher than 340-350 does seem to make me bleed or leave a very nasty welt.

[SilverEx]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

This post is gonna be incoherent and fairly full of holes as I'm really hung over today D:. I'm actually quite enjoying this debate, I'm not saying anybody here is a bad person or anything I'm just trying to make a point about the fact high ROF builds are pointless and unnecessary in an Airsoft game environment.

I'm not using Mil-sim as an argument for anything, I play at normal sites with normal games and go to the odd semi milsim game. I just think it's better that's all. My argument against high ROF is it has no real use that a normal Airsoft gun can't fulfil. Which is the point everyone has avoided. High rate of fire = e-peen, that's all. Airsoft has rules for high FPs because it can be dangerous, high ROF weapons can be dangerous if used incorrectly. If I can't be trusted no matter what with a 400fps full auto rifle to only shoot once why can anyone no matter who they are waltz on to a site with a gun that's capable of hitting you with an entire mag in seconds? Because the capacity for danger, injury and general ruining of a game is too much. I have no issue with high caps, I have no issue with people playing there way. Hell I don't even care if a guy turns up in a pair of stockings and a skirt. I do care about my own safety however and I don't see why I should be entrusting other people who I don't know to use their monster ROF responsibly if I am deemed by a rule to be incapable of using a 400fps rifle responsibly? It's double standards. I'd rather everything stayed the same and sites started imposing ROF limits. So then it's irrelevant and everything becomes easier to marshal again. I did infact report that player I mentioned as did several other people and he was told to tone it down a bit however when he was chrono'd his gun was not hot even though everyone on site thought it was. Why did they think this? Because 30rps seriously hurts.

I have no issue with going to a game day and getting shot at, I expect it, it's part of the fun. I do have an issue when someone is walking round trying to harm other people ESPECIALLY because they believe other people to be cheating. Overkill is against the rules at most sites, high ROF is generally overkill just waiting to happen, so go figure.
I am not saying everyone who builds one of these guns is out to hurt people, I'm just saying the capacity is there and it's too easy to be abused. Flared temper cos you think someone's cheating, you get in close and empty a midcap in to them in a second and a bit. Who deserves to be thrown off site? You do for the hosing and cheat calling. I use this as an example as it's been stated earlier in the thread that someone actually does this if they believe someone is cheating. That's wrong and I don't want it at my local sites. I have in fact changed sites because of high ROF users and bad sportsmanship so I don't have to deal with this anymore but it really used to get my back up and everyone else who was on the receiving end.

Also the real life reference? That's not even relevant, in real life weapons are designed to kill or "incapacitate" a target/s, in Airsoft they are designed to mark your target as hit and that's all. Massive difference.

(Oh and about miniguns, yeh I would find that highly unrealistic as soldiers don't walk around carrying miniguns other than in Predator of course.)

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

We`ll you`ll find mini gun`s mounted you`ll also take mini gun fire from a number of support vehicles if your a "gunner" in airsoft it can sometimes be up to you to hold back people while greatly out numbered I find only a few things do this high rof, loads of flash bangs, around 20rps and a box mag or one guy with 30rps plus and an assistant to just pop off rounds while you reload, or an array of moscarts and some fast reloading.

Try holding somewhere with 12 rps alone with 330rps while your team go`s round to flank and you`ll find it a lot lot harder to get the job done.

Well for mill sim I have my TOP m249 with a pgc gearbox shooting around 350fps and 20 to 28rps depending on the battery back from the days where an lmg would cost you around £800 and then you`d need to spend £200 to £400 to make it skirmish-able

Ok well the latest ballistic testing of airsoft guns for the uk sets the non lethal full auto limit at around 1.2J as a guideline I think semi was around 1.4J and bolt action they allowed a tiny bit more. They did not outline any rof limit and I personally have taken something stupid like 100 rounds in one go point blank at 350fps from a full auto gun shooting around 20rps not to mention getting laced up point blank back at Angel years ago where you`d expect to take 20rounds even if you called "hit" right away.

It does not hurt unless your getting drilled in the face or something a hi cap would be empty long before you`d do any kind of damage that could hurt someone who had clothes on.

In Asia they play "pain games" where you call hit when you can`t take the pain anymore. I think there cqb limits are 400fps in some sites other sites maybe higher or lower and I bet some people are cracking way over 30rps in them pain games.

I`m sure a few people from HK on here would be happy to tell us all about it.

You can use a 400fps DMR gun at a lot of woodland sites it has to be "locked" on semi or be semi only but tbh as most gbbr only have 30rd mags and take a massive fps drop if you full auto them I`m sure there`s sites that let gbb users use 400fps guns just not cqb sites.

[stonechip]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

So who wants to build me a high rps gearbox then?

[sparrowhawk]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

pain games....im up for that!!!!

@stonechip...id love love to build you one,how much money have you got to waste,i mean spend? tbh you are better off learning how to do it yourself, you will get more out of the build then just buying a drop in gb...half the fun is researching, learning and putting one togther, and besides you will have to learn to fix it eventually

[stonechip]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Im quite happy looking after, taking gearbox's apart and changing stuff my self, but time and lack in knowledge mean i'm not happy waisting my money when I get it wronge and it all goes crunch. As for money wise how much you do you think it would cost me to get someone to do it for me?

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

@ Stonechip

What fps and rps are you after ? and on what battery and motor ? What`s your budget ?

I just avoid doing dsg work as I don`t want to break a set of gears that cost over £60 but if you want say a 9mm gearbox built around some shs 13:1 gears and a UT motor then on an 11.1v you should be able to push past 30rps without spending too much, short stroke by a tooth or 2 and you may get to mid 30`s even close to 40rps.

I like to go dsg as I normally use short barrel guns and like to have a large 7.4v battery in them as I hate having to mess around with bats when they go flat. Any build I have to run a small bat on then ends up getting a JG blue top motor as they use the least amount of power but they are pretty dam slow. I hear some of the ics motors can also run a GB on next to no power too ?

[stonechip]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Well thats alot of questions, currently i'v got a ascu controled, 13.1, short stroked my 2 teeth, on a 11v lipo, m4 and looking do something similar with my other one. It's a new g&p cracker, so nice short barrel for a high rof. depends much much to either going down the DSG route, which I quite like the sound of, or short stroking another set of 13.1 gear. Motor can be changed, battery would be a small 7.4v lipo.