Very high rps... What's the point?

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

if your running a small 7.4v then you`ll want to dsg to get over 30rps I crack 40rps on my 16:1 dsg 7mm set up at the moment

So your choice now is if you want to take the cheaper dsg route using a set of modify dsg 16:1 gears or if you want to go all out and spend the extra money and get a set of "riot" dsg gears I think he makes them in both 16:1 and 13:1

The modify gears can be as cheap as $60 for a set that includes a tappet plate and spring spacer

The riot gears I think are around $100 plus postage maybe a bit more and you just get the gears but these gears are about the most solid aeg gears you`ll ever get your hands on.

[SilverEx]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Oh I see, because you took a 100 rounds at point blank we all should and be happy about it? And we also should because they play pain games in Hong Kong? Now I really understand how futile this argument is...
I could say a lot more but there's no point at all. Never gonna get through to those who champion high rate of fire anyway.

And for the record, I've suppressed teams with a g-spec while my squad members flank. ROF means nothing. Placement, timing and tactics are everything. Not how super leet and awesome your rifle is, that just in some circumstances changes your tactics or makes them slightly wider. ROF just means you hit people with more bb's, that's all, it doesn't make them travel any faster through the air (which is more important when accounting for people ducking or diving or moving). Flawed arguments for flawed systems is all I can say. I'm out.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

If someone is running then with a high rate of fire you can put bb`s in the path they will have to travel down and hit them.

Also it`s proven by military research that over a certain point rof ends up increasing shots on target.

Add to that that a very high rof gun can be used by selected players or even marshals to represent ground or air support and you can see that they all have uses.

I don`t think that it`s the people buying a £300 gun then sticking £100 worth of parts in it as well as some people who then pay loads to have the mod work done to the gun that you have to worry about just like I don`t worry about GBBR users having "hot" guns people who spend serious money on a sport take it seriously I very much doubt these people are out to hurt anyone.

The people I worry about are the people who buy a cheap gun and chuck an 11.1v battery in it and a fast motor get anything from 25rps to 35rps and go nuts spraying people who have spent sod all on airsoft and don`t love it they just enjoy acting the prat

The same go`s for people who just buy a cheap hot gun or upgrade a gun to be hot then just act like an idiot with it. People with no skill, no experience and no manners are a much bigger risk to how much fun airsoft is.

Also I hear the MOD is working on some kind of mix between a mini gun and an L85 so serious rof at a squad hand held level maybe something that is common place in the next 10 to 30 years.

Also note that the AD-63 can fire at 100rps and is a real life firearm it has got 2 barrels so lets say that 50rps in a "normal" type AR or LMG could be classed as realistic still.

[seansamurai1]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

I'm looking at doing a DSG setup, aiming upto 60rps which some haters will flame me for!
Look at it this way, it's my choice so get over it, I'm doing it as a technical project. For the most part it will have a programable MOSFET that allows semi, burst and full, so burst or semi will be heavily used and full used for suppression only.
I've made semi Auto DMRs, I've made medium speed with high reliability now it's time to push my gun smithing skills by building one of the most technically challenging builds.

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Burnt out my mosfet at the weekend while working on my DSG setup. I'll be getting another one soon, to carry on my testing.

I was working on lightening my piston, nothing major done with it yet just drilled a few holes and removed unused teath. Didn't get much chance to check the difference before my Mosfet blew.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

what fet were you using ? Some dsg`s can draw a lot of power so make sure you have a beefy mosfet and I think it`s best to keep the fet simple.

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

It was an infected mosfet, I've now burnt out 2 of them so I will not be using them again.

I'm going to go with a simple mosfet from Midas for my DSG.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

best way really if you let Midas or Neil aka toolbox know they may be able to add some more thermal fuses to it as dsg`s drain a bit more juice then a normal set up so having the fuse set up a bit higher is normally the way to go.

[happyal]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Cheers buddy, I will do

[PureSilver]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Sorry for the necropost, but Jesus Christ, what a thread!

What bugs me with this sort of setup is simply 50-60rps= 50-60 rounds heading some poor sods way with every 1sec trigger pull, that is just major overkill to me. [...] its not like you can dodge BBs at 20rps any more than you can at 60rps.

QFT. If you're throwing 30+rps downrange and shooting even short bursts, then if you're any good with the gun you're going to hit your target repeatedly when he really only needs to be hit once. If he doesn't take his hit, hit him some more - but at least let him be innocent of cheating until proven guilty!

also a real m4 empty`s a 30rd mag in what 2 seconds max ? So if your using a 300rd high cap its nice if on full auto you have close to 2 or 3 seconds of shooting just like a real m4

Apologies, but this is a stupid argument and high ROF guns are nothing like "a real m4". If you were using a mid-cap your RPS would only need to be half of that or less. If you were shooting a realcap then it would need to be the real ROF and then it really would be like a real M4.

In real life there are not fps or rps limits so why should airsoft have them ? In real life you come across a mini gun or 10 guys all with box mags you find a way to deal with it or you die simple.

Again, I'm sorry, but this is total, utter and complete rubbish. In real life even a GAU-2/A minigun only shoots 4,000rpm. That's 66.6*rps, or 11.1* rounds per second PER BARREL. In real life there ARE FPS limits (governed by the recoil the human shooter can withstand) and there ARE RPS limits (imposed by the ability of a barrel to soak up heat and by the ability of the shooter to withstand compound recoil). If you show me a video of a minigun being held and fired from a standing position by a human being I'll show you that it's a scene from Predator. As other people have repeatedly pointed out in this thread it's one thing to jump 10 guys - because it's your fault for stupidly jumping 10 guys - and quite another for the one guy you've quite reasonably expected to have a fair fight with to suddenly turn out to be sporting the firepower of 10 guys.

if i turned up at one of your mil-sims with an airsoft mini gun, would it not be allowed.

Of course it would. Of course, it would also weigh almost 30kgs unloaded, so you wouldn't exactly be running about with it. At least not for very long. There's a reason that the higher the ROF of a real firearm is, the bigger they get.

So far in this thread there have been plenty of people referring anecdotally to situations in which someone shooting a silly ROF did whack it into full auto for the purposes of fending off large numbers of opponents. So you do shoot auto and people are being pointlessly and very painfully overkilled as a result, not to mention pretty much spoiling the idea that skilful use of numbers and tactics should be an advantage. As Chandler said, I airsoft expecting to get shot - but I don't go expecting to get drilled 15 times in under a half-second. And as I've already said, that's nothing like being lit up by multiple opponents; if you're silly enough to try to jump 5 opponents then it's your fault if you get shot 30 times. If you're intelligent enough to pick one target out for a fairer fight it's not your fault that he's effectively two or three players; if you're the person dumping a line of BBs on someone when a double tap would do you might be having fun but you're spoiling someone else's enjoyment.

[thekonassure]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Oh sorry equipment to one side I thought who ever aimed and shot 1st gets the hit ?

Oh wait outside bb`s are not like real rounds the wind chucks them around so does a leaf hell a bee could fly by and stop your bb

You think a one on one fight is a "fairer" fight ? I`ve seen a guy with a pistol take out a whole team so it`s about skill and planing and using what you have, a high rof gun say`s look at me or makes people run away depending on how you use it.

of course it`s never right to spray down anyone who did not ask for it no matter what rof your gun is or what mags your using hell I`ve seen cases were 1 shot was "over kill" and 70 rounds was not

So use the correct force for the situation done, this thread was asking if there is a point to very high rof not about the sportsman ship of people who are or are not using very high rps.

[SilverEx]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

this thread was asking if there is a point to very high rof not about the sportsman ship of people who are or are not using very high rps.

And it's been answered with a no. There is no point. If you can't see that from the well worded arguments put against you I seriously can't see how you will ever understand this. All, every single one of your counter arguments are flawed; some with circular logic and others with gems such as: "a high rof gun say`s look at me or makes people run away depending on how you use it.". This is so much facepalm my head is hurting.

[PureSilver]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

Oh wait outside bb`s are not like real rounds the wind chucks them around so does a leaf hell a bee could fly by and stop your bb

Of course it could. Mind you, just like a real shooter, you could attempt to compensate for that by checking conditions before you take your shot, and by so doing attempt to improve your skills. Or, you could take a shot, and then take a follow up after seeing where the first one went. Or, you could just hurl tens of rounds downrange and see what sticks.

You think a one on one fight is a "fairer" fight ? I`ve seen a guy with a pistol take out a whole team so it`s about skill and planing and using what you have, a high rof gun say`s look at me or makes people run away depending on how you use it.

Weapons depending, I do indeed (you don't bring a bang kill to a gunfight, obviously). A guy with (presumably) a semi-auto only pistol taking out a whole team is impressive; it shows both skill and tactical nous to do so much with so little against so many. If he was carrying a high-ROF AEG with a box mag the level of impressiveness would decrease exponentially because he could just burst-fire his way out of his lack of skill. It grants him an advantage that's like playing rock-paper-nuclear bomb.

of course it`s never right to spray down anyone who did not ask for it no matter what rof your gun is or what mags your using hell I`ve seen cases were 1 shot was "over kill" and 70 rounds was not [...] So use the correct force for the situation done, this thread was asking if there is a point to very high rof not about the sportsman ship of people who are or are not using very high rps.

Agreed that the correct force is context-dependent, but unfortunately it seems to me (and a few other people, it would appear) that high-ROF guns ARE about the sportsmanship of the people that use them, seeing as the point of them is to grant a very large and equally unpleasant advantage to the people that use them.

[Icebass]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

They're not really that much of an advantage are they? They do help, like recently I ran down an open field by myself with half a hi-cap burst firing at 3 people moving to cover. For some reason they decided I was a little scary and ran to cover before trying to take me out (I then took 2 of them out on single and someone else that decided to join me got the 3rd). But they could have easily taken me out as it was a totally "tactical" mad run down a field with no cover.

So to turn this on its head, how fast in your opinion is too fast? I'm thinking 40rps is enough. Yet I have no problem with anyone that uses something that fires faster. At the end of the day its their gun and their walk on fee so they should be able to do whatever they want.

I do think that some people should NEVER be allowed to go within a mile of a high rof gun. Some of the close up full autoing between rentals / walkons has been insane recently.

[PureSilver]

Re: Very high rps... What's the point?

They're not really that much of an advantage are they?

I think the issue is that opponents are rightly afraid of copping painful overkill (no reflection on you, or anyone else, as a player - just on that buzzsaw noise) which does introduce a slightly unwelcome feeling of apprehension. This is a game, after all - and it's one thing to be a bit scared but another thing altogether to be a bit scarred.

I'm thinking 40rps is enough. Yet I have no problem with anyone that uses something that fires faster. At the end of the day its their gun and their walk on fee so they should be able to do whatever they want. I do think that some people should NEVER be allowed to go within a mile of a high rof gun. Some of the close up full autoing between rentals / walkons has been insane recently.

But don't you see the dichotomy between "it's their money, they can do what they want" and "some people should never be allowed one"? If they were target-shooting, then fine - it's their money. But when they're spending their money - and other people are spending theirs - in implicit recognition of a game, I personally feel it spoils the game a bit (possibly completely) if someone holds a very painful advantage. I'm sure that all of you are very experienced players (you'd need to be to build one) but there's already one guy in this thread who built one with the express intent of only using it in full-auto. That's an arms race that just makes airsoft needlessly painful. There were a couple of comments in this thread saying "if you don't like it, don't own one" but it's not the owning one I have a problem with, it's the being shot with one I'm not a fan of. The people that are saying "if you don't like it, don't play" are missing the point - these aren't being used exclusively in semi-auto, or exclusively in pain games - you're using them in everyday woodland and CQB. How am I supposed to know which games to avoid? And shouldn't the rights of the other players not to get overkilled overrule your desire for access to that potential? It just seems very... unsporting (as well as pointless) to be able to throw down such a withering rate of fire when it just isn't needed. Doesn't it spoil the game for you, the shooter, knowing that you're not competing on roughly even terms?

I'm not judging anyone in this thread's skill or claimed abilities to be able to hold down the trigger for 1/15th of a second for a double-tap. I'm just not looking forward to copping a s***-load of BB's in my face from someone that only needed a double-tap to get my attention. I don't claim to have any particular answer for this problem - with MOSFETs and programmable this and that there's no way to stop it happening, so it just has to go to the marshals, which isn't fun for anybody.