Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

[sk8inmadkid]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

I agree with Aeviv - about the cosmetics. Ive seen a lot of people buying attatchments that just sit there and look pretty, and why?

Shows off they can afford it? Makes them look more the part that theyre trying to play? whether its US marines or whatever.

But I think thats what I personally love about airsoft, its as real as it gets without blanks or live rounds!

[Rogasaurus]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

agree with both sides of the argument.

i think that currently at most sites that they are not the best guns to use because of the weight and size disadvantage. but in effective team some form of support gunner is needed but someone with a fast firing gun and a box mag could pull of that job quite easily.

Maybe sites should allow proper Heavy Machine Gunners and Light Machine Gunners to be able to shoot up to 450 fps or something on fully auto or something allong those lines.

In my opinion that would scare the hell out of most people and keep there heads down. I would not like to be in the sites of some one with that power

[Fizzy]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

size does matter, heres an example, say rampage's .50 cal couldnt outrage a vsr, point in lugging it around then?

Who says it does outrange a similar or more upgraded VSR? Point in lugging it around, well, none other than to look good (as already mentioned about carrying support weapons, which I don't necessarily agree with) because at the end of the day the site limit is 500fps for ALL bolt action rifles.

i feel that a heavy machine gunner is just for show factor - its their personal choice becuz they like they way they look - you can get the same results with any assault rifle with a box mag

Depends where\how you play. I've played at a fair few milsim events, where box mags are only allowed on true support weapons

[The Keeper of Secrets]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

Maybe sites should allow proper Heavy Machine Gunners and Light Machine Gunners to be able to shoot up to 450 fps or something on fully auto or something allong those lines.

Are people not reading? Anything full auto above 381fps is illegal.

[metalboa]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

Good thing its illegal because if they started letting support weapons go that high id stop playing.

[The Keeper of Secrets]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

Agreed, even though I own one.

[metalboa]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

I got myself a star m60e4, star m249 MKII and a tm mg36 :D and they are all running under 350fps

[Rogasaurus]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

well should raise the law to like 400 or something then. obviously have the 30m engagement rule.

and thats the idea of the gun to strike fear into the opposition

[7.62mm]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

Ok,

First things first:

1) you can achieve fire suppression with any weapon as long as the volume of rounds being dumped onto an enemy position is greater than the volume of rounds being dumped on you.

2) intimidation will be achieved is the enemy is suppressed, the size of the weapon is unimportant (who will see from 500 metres for example in a real life situation)

3) it's important to recognise the difference between a 'heavy' and 'light' machine gun. Heavy machine are by their nature 'heavy' because they are usually fixed into a static position. As such a heavy machine gun cannot really be used in an offensive section/squad movement in the same way that a 'light' machine can. An example would be the Vickers Maxim or the Browing .50 calibre ...too heavy to be moved quickly and deployed quickly.

4) the only reason a machine gun is used for the suppression role is that it can lay down a greater volume of automatic fire onto an enemy position at a steady rate (2 seconds on, 2 seconds off plus the fire of the rest of the section). The machine gunner (light) is the member of the section responsible for the majority of suppressive fire whereas other section members (sniper, assault rifles and maybe a specialist) are able to do other things (eg flank, throw grennades etc) while the light machine gunner provides covering fire.

5) so, size is not important (ooer!), section composition is more important and fixed roles and adherence to standard operating procedure is even more important when it comes to suppressing an enemy position.

[7.62mm]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

Oh just to add:

To suppress an enemy position you absolutely do not have to be laying down purely automatic fire. The support weapon is there to provide this automatic fire role while other section menmbers play heir own part in suppressing an enemy position by laying down single shot fire at 2 second intervals. By doing this you achieve suppression plus you do not expire ammunition. Also, firepower does not mean 'the power by which ammunition is fired', rather it means 'volume'. So, the fire from a section of say 8 guys in airsoft would be greater than 2 guys defending a position. It all needs to be taken in context. No attacking force would dare take on a defensive position unless they had a 3:1 superiority at least. This is so that the volume of fire laiddown on that enemy position can easily outweigh the firepower being returned. Attack an enemy position with a ratio of less than 3:1 and you have the problem of not being able to lay down enough firepower as you will be attacking (usually) a fixed position where the defender has the advantage as he/she is behind cover and more capable of laying down 'accurate' fire...and accurate suppressing fire is more effective than inaccurate fire.

[sk8inmadkid]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

3:1


The armys favourite odds


Yeah, I see what you mean about firepower meaning volume, and that totally makes sense, although my original thoughts where that i meant firepower as in the size and amount being put down, But I think your point is more valid there mate.


Im learning so much from this thread alone!

[Herv_telesto]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

I agree with what a lot of people are saying here, the reason that we love airsoft is that we get to dress up in combat geat and run around the woods pretending to be soldiers.
Regardless of weather an M249 can carry as many rounds as an M4 with a box mag the fact of the matter is that people choose to lug around support weapons so they can look the part.

I personally think that running around with a box/C mag on ur M4 makes you look stupid but running around with an M60 on ur shoulder makes you look like a pimp.

Also people saying that airsoft hurts have obviously never played professional paintball, thats real pain thank you very much!

[Bulb]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

i'm my squad of eight players we have two support gunners and two grenadiers, its an idea we got from watching a film on navy seals training.

We all use low/midcaps so the use of support gunners to use is vital!

as has been said before support gunners only need to be as powerful as all the other aegs, i mean its the number of rounds that brings suppresion not how much its going to hurt...

I mean in real life a 5.56 round from an m4 is going to hurt just as much as a 5.56 round from a minimi so the support gunners with higher fps is a bit silly and pointles imho.

we use the support guns for three main roles covering/suppresing fire so we can move on an enemy flank, to lay down fire so we can make a tactical withdrawl and the third on is one we used and nicked from the seals.

When watching the film on their training it was saying becuase they often worked in small teams they would more often than not have a higher number of support gunners and grenadiers. This was for whenever performing a snap ambush, attack or tactical withdrawl if they were coming into resistance they could provide a high amount of firepower whilst also disorientating and confusing the enemy into beleiving their are considerably more of them than there actually is.

I find normal aegs with box mags really annoying, i would love it if they would make a c-mag that only held100-200 rounds (then i could get an elvis costume!) Having a support gun in a squad both looks real good and adds to the feel and atmosphere of the game. i'd rather lug around a saw or my real weight m4/m203 and be a bit more realistic any day than run around with an mp5 with a box mag or a p90 with a moscart launcher attached!

Thats my take on things.

[Fizzy]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

I mean in real life a 5.56 round from an m4 is going to hurt just as much as a 5.56 round from a minimi so the support gunners with higher fps is a bit silly and pointles imho.

Well, not technically true, something with a higher muzzle velocity would 'hurt' more

[riclepp]

Re: Heavy Machine Gunners - Purpose?

my 2 pence worth

HMG are dule role 1, suppression (keeping heads down), and intimdation.

For example a 7.62mm will cut a door way in a brick wall or in other words cut you in half if you get hit and most likely kill you.

But

A 5.56 will mame and not cut a hole in the wall, but can also acheive a suppressive fire role due to the being a smaller round this has a slighly higher rof than a 7.62

But the 7.62 gmpy is belt fed (800 rounds per tin and weighs areound 24pound and the gmpy around 36), with the sa80 lmg it is limited to the speed of the mag changes and ammo carried. Whereas the gmpy can sustain a longer fire period before reload.


If this is applied to airsoft we should all be running with correct sized mages and wpns. however this is a game and I feel there is no difference between the aeg's and hmg and never will be until we can only use low caps ect.

My Star 249 generaly fire at 338, but the spring can be pushed forwards to having a fps of 385. But has no superiority over the aegs. Until everyone use's or at least attempts to use real tatics I do not think hmgs will gain you any advantages. This is my opinion anyway and not trying to flame anyone. But thery are fun to airsoft with tho.

Happy days

Ric