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**The General** · 30 November, 2011, 00:24

Re: Is this legal

Well, I guess if people have reported this, it's going to be interesting to see if UKARA cleans it's house or does nothing.

It only takes one case to get the whole thing banned and god knows in the UK it does not take a lot to get something banned.

**~~V.A.K~~** · 30 November, 2011, 00:25

Re: Is this legal

Originally posted by SAS Scott View Post

I got pulled in by this brought a membership , brought a gun off them and later realized it was illegal my parents and I were not amused the slightest bit.

sure you were i bet you were still drooling over your shiny new black aeg

**bricktop** · 30 November, 2011, 00:31

Re: Is this legal

Scott When did u buy it from them?

**~~SAS Scott~~** · 30 November, 2011, 00:35

Re: Is this legal

Originally posted by V.A.K View Post

sure you were i bet you were still drooling over your shiny new black aeg

Ok thanks for the worlds worst insult..
Bearing in mind this was 2 years ago . I signed up to the membership and got a gun but after finding out that it was really illegal I was angry wouldn't you be? I was convinced what I was doing was legal then later found out it really wasn't.I could have got in serious trouble more importantly my parents could have got in even worse trouble most probably facing a hefty fine...

I am honestly getting quite fed up of being discriminated for being under 18 at the end of the day we all love our hobby so age doesn't make a difference does it...

EDIT:I got the gun 2 years ago...

**starscream** · 30 November, 2011, 00:37

Re: Is this legal

UKARA have received my email. It's either report them, or spend every sunday with the mrs....

**jonny lovegrove** · 30 November, 2011, 00:42

Re: Is this legal

I have actually talked to tim over this in the past, you forget he fought for a defence in the first place, why would he risk it on something as stupid as that? The entire buisness for a few AEG sales?

**~~baddbaz~~** · 30 November, 2011, 00:42

Re: Is this legal

as i have said before ..... ukara has created a gravy train of greedy airsoft retailers and site owners who see this as a way of extracting fees and now selling weopons for profit.not everyone is at it but as soon as one starts taking the pee ,they all will .needs action or an airsofters union with teeth to deal with it . without one airsoft will become a shadow of its self and just another money grabbing business and the true enthusiasts will just give up with it .....now is ukaras chance to prove themselves ...

**Sam-Beta** · 30 November, 2011, 00:42

Re: Is this legal

Having a good read over this whole situation and my god this couldn't be any stupider. I will be reporting this as well.

Edit: Complaint filed.

**~~baddbaz~~** · 30 November, 2011, 00:56

Re: Is this legal

gonna take alot of krylon paint to sort this one out ...lol... seriously though ,where does that leave all the owners of these rifs ? will they be prosecuted or will it just be the site owner in the crap ....

**jonny lovegrove** · 30 November, 2011, 01:01

Re: Is this legal

Originally posted by baddbaz View Post

gonna take alot of krylon paint to sort this one out ...lol... seriously though ,where does that leave all the owners of these rifs ? will they be prosecuted or will it just be the site owner in the crap ....

They could do nothing, order a mandatory two toning or just destroy all the illegal weapons. It is an awkward subject that has been brought up here a fair few times (twice by me) and nothing. Everyone at xsite says its 100% legal, cutting it close but nothing wrong.
Im not sure on it, id rather not put an opinion in but it could end badly.

**~~SAS Scott~~** · 30 November, 2011, 01:01

Re: Is this legal

Originally posted by baddbaz View Post

gonna take alot of krylon paint to sort this one out ...lol... seriously though ,where does that leave all the owners of these rifs ? will they be prosecuted or will it just be the site owner in the crap ....

Im hoping only the owner even though the gun is now sold...
I presume its the owner who will get in crap as when I got my gun I was led to believe it was %100 legal after reading their website.. So its not the buyers fault as the owner has made it seem legal when its not...

**Sam-Beta** · 30 November, 2011, 01:03

Re: Is this legal

The purchase of a RIF isn't illegal unless you're underage of course. At least that's the way I understand it. It will be the site owner who will be liable. Don't hold me to this as I'm barely awake though! It will be interesting to see if and how UKARA deal with this though.

**S3V3R** · 30 November, 2011, 01:07

Re: Is this legal

See I had herd about this the other week from a member of my team. They went to Xsite and noticed that several kids had RIFS.
At the time I theorised that the kids were borrowing their parents guns.. or a friends gun (my little brother occasionally borrows my G36 as he cant afford one & I know hes using it for airsoft). However, It seems that maybe they fit into the bracket of illegal buyers?
It does seem logical that if you're buying a RIF for your kid (whos under 18 and not a registered skirmisher) then you're not covered by what UKARA stands for...
Seems like someone is going to get in trouble if they carry on dodging rules

**jonny lovegrove** · 30 November, 2011, 01:08

Re: Is this legal

After a quick google, this was posted by tim:

We run a junior membership scheme at Xsite.

The first thing that needs to be looked at is what can and can't be done.

Anybody can avail themselves of the defence, there is no restriction on it, so anybody that can prove they are an airsoft skirmisher can import, manufacture and be sold RIF's. however, youngsters cannot buy RIF's.

There are no restrictions on ownership or use for the under 18's so a youngster can legally own, manufacture and import RIF's. The Home Office view was the importing was not buying in this country over the net, it is for those travelling into the UK with their RIF's. manufacture would include painting a 2 tone to make it realistic or putting parts together to make a gun from them.

As a site we encourage youngsters to play, we have young guns days and on the whole they are well behaved and if i am honest, less trouble on site than the older players. We therefore have looked at the best ways to keep the young element happy, and crucially, also their parents.

We looked at lots of different schemes, including long term rental for the cost of guns, selling guns in parts to be assembled and following consultation with several legal bods the scheme we run now.

If you carefully read the vcr act, our defence is "for the purpose off airsoft skirmishing." That is then further defined as to what constitutes a skirmisher. Our junior members have to full fill exactly the same requirements as the adults do, so they have to complete at least 3 games in more than 2 months (we say 9 calendar weeks to our members as it saves variations when you look at calendars), there is also then the permission from the parents to agree to membership.

Once a young player is a member, we will sell their parents on their behalf a RIF for skirmishing. The sale has to be face to face, it cannot be over the phone or the net and both parties, the parent and the junior player must be present. We are not selling to an under 18 as the parent is doing the buying and the reason for the sale is the RIF is for the junior member "for the purpose off airsoft skirmishing" satisfied the requirements of the defence. The Junior can legally own the RIF, as there is no restriction on ownership.

We also take the opportunity of having both the parent and junior in front of us at the same time to explain the law, explain what you can and can't do with a replica, including transportation and gain assurances from the parent junior will comply.

The way we run the scheme is our choice, there is no clearly defined way a junior scheme should be run. With the knowledge I have of the VCR act I believe we are operating the scheme within the law and as such are happy to run it. I have discussed it with the Home office and so far have had nobody breaking down our door on a midnight raid. Others I have spoke to are less convinced the scheme would work for them, that is their choice, but I would happily stand my ground and defend our scheme, even in a court of law.

The secret with any scheme is keeping control of it. since the introduction we have banned 2 junior players and revoked their memberships, both were due to the parents, not the junior themselves. We view the junior parent relationship as a vital one and unless both parties behave themselves and act sensibly we are not prepared to put our name to them as a site.

I very much doubt having dealt with them for several years you will get any more clarity from the Home Office than already exists on junior members, it will be up to retailers and sites to work together to run whatever scheme they are happy with. That will no doubt vary as peoples perceptions and opinions vary.

**Mickydoos** · 30 November, 2011, 01:09

Re: Is this legal

No, the buyer has done nothing illegal. It is illegal to SELL a RIF to someone without a defence. It is not illegal for someone without a defence to BUY one.

It is therefore the SELLERS responsibility to ensure their buyer has a defence and if not, refuse to sell.

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