Indirect fire - blind firing?

[7.62mm]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

Guys guys guys, let's not be voetsek bliksimmers about this. The simple fact is thus: Airsoft is essentially a military simulation. Injuries 'will' happen. The simple fact that there is a lot of discussion and argument regarding this slightly confused 'indirect fire/blind fire' topic is purely because of this: There are no universal airsoft 'sporting' rules. If the players got their asses into gear and organsed their own governing body then this issue would be addressed accordingly.

As long as airsoft is a hobby in the UK and not a sport then the way it is played will be open to interpretation and there will never be any distinctive lines drawn as remember, there is a difference between indirect fire and blind fire - get the definitions right and you avoid misinterpretation.

Get your act together UK, you're a good 5 years behind in getting airsoft recognised as a sport and avoiding all this type of stuff.

[murta369]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

final word: blind firing is for pussys. man up!

Also for noobs but Couldnt say it better myself

[thesmellypocket]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

a no here,give the other party a fair chance to hit you too an make sure your eyes are behind that weapon when you fire it,this isn't real war an you'll only be risking a walking back to regen/calling for a medic

its all about fun an why risk hurting someone else for a sake of a few "kills"?

[Clot]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

Im going to say no, I wouldnt take a hit from a few bb's which ' rained ' down on me.
I have seen people take hits from twigs, rain, snow, and god only knows what else. Being a marshal I have told them not to take it.

At say 10m range, the chances of gettin hit by all of the rounds from a direct moscart are fairly low. Unless your shell is particulary powerful and accurate, and I havent seen any of those yet, your chances of getting a good hit are slim.
The best use of moscarts are direct shots, as close as possible, and preferably indoors.

If everyone was to take a bunker by ' raining ' shots down, why not just throw a handful of bb's ? Or just shoot trees high for the bb's to fall down, with sticks and bark and whatever else.

Pointless.

Oh and another thing, all good shooters will only (and should only) shoot a shouldered weapon, using sights / scope.

[Barny Hamon]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

So you would'nt take a hit from a bb which traveled from the barrel of a RIF, through the air and hit you, even if you saw it hit you? Id say thats nothing more than cheating tbh. It doesnt matter what power it hit you with it still came from a RIF and hit you.

[Prev]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

In my eyes a hit is a hit, it doesnt matter which direction it came from. Last time I played a GZ in April loads of people were mortaring. As much as it annoyed me I still took the hits. You have just admitted you cheat.

[Chandler]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

I wouldent say he cheats, But if people cant see the enemy, then just start raining down BB's because they cant see or hit the enemy, maybe they are tactically disadvantaged. But lobbing BB's is more cheating in my eyes then getting hit by a stray round they fired into the air in a hope to get a kill from a distance which is unreal in the world of airsoft! Not saying i wouldent do it.. im all for Covering And indirect fire, but lobbing bb's at people you cant see? sounds a bit Noob to me.. just my two cents

[Barny Hamon]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

In my eyes it does'nt matter how the bb got there as long as it was a direct ( as in not hitting anything not straight) line from the gun barrel to the player. A hit is still a hit, no matter with what power the bb hit you.

[tommyb]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

Its at my local site and the few times ive done it, its have been on people I know.

Im sorry, but how do you know it's someone you know by them just sticking their arm around a corner?

Blind firing is bull imo, unskilled and pussylike. If someone is shooting and you can't get a shot on them then move.

Ive been shot by someone on these forums because of blindfiring, directly into my temple with a GBB from about 20cm away, because they blind fired through a window at GZU. Why shoot when you can't see anything?

[Leon_London]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

So you would'nt take a hit from a bb which traveled from the barrel of a RIF, through the air and hit you, even if you saw it hit you? Id say thats nothing more than cheating tbh. It doesnt matter what power it hit you with it still came from a RIF and hit you.

But to be honest in the situation originally described by TKOS (if anyone remembers the original post lol) You would have no way of seeing where the bb's originally came from, all you would know is that you may be beind cover and you get hit from an angle not possible from the direction the Opfor are coming from, so if it was just the odd 1 or 2 bb's then chances are you would asume it's been deflected from the tree's around you.

That's all ausming the original idea wouldn't work really well and a hail of bb's rained down upon you, then you would really have no excuse not to take the hit.

[7.62mm]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

Again, definitions are needed here. Some people aregetting confused thinking that 'blind firing' is actually 'plunging/indirect fire', whereas others think that indirect fire is unskilled.

In the real world, plunging fire as a means of fire suppression is used when weapons lack the range to suppress and enemy in the direct fire situation. Take a vickers heavy machine gun for instance being used to fire indirect plunging fire at say an angle of 110 degrees, so not exactly 'mortaring' but suppressing.

Also, if you have pinned an enemy down behind cover by firing at him/her until he/she takes cover, do you stop firing just because they're behind cover? If you're suggesting that this should happen then I'm afraid that this is bogus rhetoric. The very nature of suppressive fire is to pin down an enemy in the greater context of a firefight, ie to provide the rest of the platoon to find an outflanking route to close with and kill the enemy. By some of the comments here it would seem that this type of 'indirect' fire (indirect by the definitions provided in this topic would mean firing when no enemy is in sight) is deemed unfair, when in fact it should form an integral part of any platoon and section level tactic.

The real issues as I keep saying but they are consistently ignored are thus: Most airsofters, despite their protestations about knowing everything about everything are essentially unaware of basic tactics, fire discipline and standard operating procedures and section and platoon construction. If those players organised themselves accordingly then the confusion about 'indirect fire' as is evident in this topic would not occur because players would understand how indirect fire works. - which brings us onto another subject: 'training', that oft' mentioned (but seldom actively utilised) killer subject in airsoft.

Second issue = airsoft isn't a sport therefore it is open to interpretation. Once it becomes a sport then a set rule book can be drawn up so things are not misinterpreted, it's quite simple. It is not a sport yet for the very same reasons that most players misunderstand the terminology and definitions of indirect fire - everyone claims to knowwhat they're talking about but due to ultra individualistic play styles and poor section/platoon level organisation and tactical awareness things all go breasticles up.

We cannot talk about standards until a standard set of rules can appear and organisationally airsofters drag the 'hobby' up out of the mire of hobbyists shadows and into being a sport where there is transparency of interpretation by all. ..

...until then, expect more of what is being misargued about. A spider is an arachnid NOT an insect: 6 legs, 8 legs, 6 legs, 8 legs! How do we know? Someone drew up a classification after doing a lot of research and fully understanding the subject. The same should be true in airsoft yet it isn't. It isn't because of the players. The only way to change this is for the players to do so which means altering the way airsoft is played and organised which is in YOUR/OUR hands. No point just talking about it, you actually HAVE to put something into action unless you're happy to be subjected to this type of 'unfair' gameplay in the future.

Go go go...

[bradnandy]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

i think (including myself) that the main grievance in this thread is the "blind firing", ie, firing whilst not actually being able to see or looking at what you're shooting at. indirect fire, and suppression play a key part in airsoft (for our group anyway).

personally i dont understand why people would have grievances about indirect fire, its a main principle in todays warfare, fire and manouvere.

[Prev]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

Im sorry, but how do you know it's someone you know by them just sticking their arm around a corner?

Easy, at Battletec they do private games. i.e invite only. Everyone who goes knows each other. Anything goes. (Within reason, no fighting.) Fun times. Havent done one in a while i.e about 2-3 years. I now organise Wednesday night games for more experience players. No marshalls just fair playing and all ive had back is good comments and people asking me when the next one is happening. Last one I did the corridor I was defending got naded (3 metre kill radius) 5 times in less than a min. I was deaf and feeling sick from the shock wave's but they still didnt gain a foot hold. Completely offtopic but im just giving everyone a bit of background info. Just so people know that I dont just go around pulling random people round corners and shooting them point blank.

[aribos]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

To add my 2p's worth. Blind firing at my local sites is a big big big NO NO. The whole point of this rule is that you MUST at all times be able to see where your BB's are going i.e. Your eyeline must be down the muzzle of your gun.

As for this debate with Prev. If your site operates blind firing so be it just dont do it at sites that do not allow it or you would be facing the consequences (spelling?)

To me blind firing in urban and cqb situations is the biggest no no of all as you can easily seriously injure someone as a BB doing less than 100fps will leave a welt on your bare skin point blank imagine what something doing 3 times that can do. Pretty much easily break skin. If you have someone round a corner or somewhere else you cannot fire upon use the american/gung ho approach, Pyro, Pyro, Pyro then Pyro some more.

There is a reason in real world situations that SWAT, Armed response, CTU and other elite forces use flash bangs and stun grenades in rooms. It disorientates the enemy with less than lethal effects.

Please people on the airsoft field use common sense and dont blind fire as if someone gets seriously hurt you could end up being banned from your site if not the entire companies sites (for multiple sites like First & Only Ground Zero etc etc) plus if that is the site where your membership is held they (i think) also have the power to revoke your membership and can report to the UKARA admins that you are no longer a member and bang there goes your defence as an airsofter.

Just think people and use common sense.

[Leon_London]

Re: Indirect fire - blind firing?

i think (including myself) that the main grievance in this thread is the "blind firing", ie, firing whilst not actually being able to see or looking at what you're shooting at.

I agree with your opinion but surely firing whilst not being able to see what your shooting at is totally different from firing without looking as the first is really supression and the second is blind fire, that's how I would judge them anyway.

I would have no problem with someone shooting at something they cant see as long as they are looking while they do it, i.e firing at a barricade or a bush knowing someone is in or around it taking cover.

I know some people said about the safety aspect earlier, for example if there eye protection had come off and you cant see this, but this would then be down to that player to take the right action such as cover their faces and call the marshals / players around them, rather then expect people to know and not fire towards them. Common sense and a good safety brief should cover this anyway.

Like someone on here said before I think, deffinition is the key to this thread.